Not Just License Plates

[cabinetman]

Many of the household products and services in your area may have been performed or provided by prisoners. The Michigan Department Of Corrections has established this program to coincide with Habitat for Humanity.

Other states may have "prison built" products and services that find their way into our lives. Haven't read any statistics of the ratio of those in programs like this actually get integrated back into society and carry on with the trade. That could be very interesting.

[alpha]

Several years ago I encountered a situation related to this post. I was an executive recruiter working in the wood manufacturing industry. I received a resume from an individual who owned a small furniture company that was going out of business.

He explained to me that the local prison started a furniture making program for inmates and they were able to beat all of his bids because of their low wage rates and the government subsidies. Of course I only heard one side of this issue, but I do know he owned a company with several employees that went out of business.

This presents an interesting dilemma. Should the prisons be running training programs that actually produce products to compete with legitimate businesses? They certainly don't have to pay a competitive wage to the inmates. Or, should they be allowed to use every means possible to train the prisoners so they can be integrated back into society.

[ironhat]

That is an interesting dilema, Alpha. I would think that the building of these products for a special and limited use market, as opposed to the general public, would be a way of serving two isolated ends without artificially bringing down prices. Furniture for Habitat for Humanity being one and, perhaps another low-income program seem to be a good match. Of course, it would be one program exchanging general funds monies with one being depleted and the other richened. I am by no means an economist so I don't know all of the ramifications. JAT.

[LinuxRandal]

This can get global very quick. As we already buy prison merchandise, if your buying China goods. This has been shown time and again.

I have mixed views, like I am sure a lot of people do. Do we want them to be educated in more ways to kill us, rob us, and con us, or do we want them to learn a taxpaying trade, and hope that they follow it?
So if I decide I want to go get more education, and I can't afford it in today's society, do I go commit a crime to get my education? Don't laugh, after having this discussion with a couple of elderly people, who said that was a very real possibility for having to deal with medical bills. And one instance, I believe in CA where a prisoner was released, due to the costs of his medical treatment (he was elderly and I remember it being more the 1,000,000 a year).

There are a lot of questions that this brings up.

[ragswl4]

A few years back (3 or 4) we had a "bark beetle" infestation in the mountain areas of SoCal where thousands upon thousands of trees were killed. Then came the fires and these dead trees provided an abundance of fuel for those fires. Many homes and lives were lost, in part due to this abundance of fuel.

Fast forward two years. The forest service wanted to remove these dead, standing trees but had no funding to do so. We visited our property in the mountains and noticed over 40 trees had been marked with numbers painted in red. As it turns out the forest service brought in convicts and began cutting down those trees (Good Thing). Most of the trees were pines and 40 to 60 feet in height. Amazingly, the trees were cut down, limbs removed and stacked and all left piled up. In some areas of the property it looked like the Air Force had bombed the place (Bad Thing).

It took us two years to get the forest service to remove all the mess that they had created. They even sent us an inspection report telling us we had too much timber on the ground and it presented a fire hazard and must be removed. As it turned out, that was the best thing they could have done as we were able to use their report to get them to remove all the downed trees and slash.

I also have heard that the fire department uses inmates to help fight forest fires.

[cabinetman]

This presents an interesting dilemma. Should the prisons be running training programs that actually produce products to compete with legitimate businesses? They certainly don't have to pay a competitive wage to the inmates. Or, should they be allowed to use every means possible to train the prisoners so they can be integrated back into society.

From my understanding, the products made are not commercially competitive with the trade. They are usually attributed back through the system and used by the system, i.e., the State, or Federal.

It seems if the products were sold with the understanding where they were produced, and the proceeds go to paying for the incarceration, I would vote yes to that.

[dkerfoot]

From my understanding, the products made are not commercially competitive with the trade. They are usually attributed back through the system and used by the system, i.e., the State, or Federal.

I worked for one of the largest office furniture manufacturers in the world for 11 years. The problem is that the Govt (State and Federal) is by far the largest customer for every furniture manufacturer.

So, while the products might be used by the govt, their existence cannibalizes what would have otherwise been a sale for the private sector.

I've always had mixed feelings on it. Keeping prisoners busy and productive and teaching them skills is good. The government competing with businesses is bad.

What would be interesting would be if private businesses bid for the opportunity to use prison labor...

[Pappy]

Let me throw a view from the other side. My eldest did federal time for drug related offences. Training and rehab are a joke at the federal level. There are courses and training available to federal inmates, if they have the money to pay for them up front or family to foot the bill for them. If an inmate is in a training course and is transfered to another facility before finishing...Oh Well!

The inmates are paid for the work they are assigned to, about .28 and hour, almost enough to pay for toiletries and the prison commissary.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I remember seeing a prison article that showed the woodshop. Festool Rotex sander. If I spend time in the joint, I want the prision with the Rotex sander! Bet that shop even has a SawStop. And imagine, no wife, no kids, no screaming customers/bosses, etc. Where do we sign up for this?

[gwyneth]

What would be interesting would be if private businesses bid for the opportunity to use prison labor...

They do, in a lot of states. Many travel reservation system phone banks, for instance, are manned by leased prison labor.

Of course, in the deep South, the worst states to be in prison anyway, they're just getting around to doing it again after early 20th century prison reforms there eliminated it. (Can you imagine how terrible prisons in Louisiana, Florida and Texas would have been before WWI-era reforms? It makes me shudder...)

[alpha]

They do, in a lot of states. Many travel reservation system phone banks, for instance, are manned by leased prison labor.

Of course, in the deep South, the worst states to be in prison anyway, they're just getting around to doing it again after early 20th century prison reforms there eliminated it. (Can you imagine how terrible prisons in Louisiana, Florida and Texas would have been before WWI-era reforms? It makes me shudder...)

Yep. It sure makes you want to stay out of those prisons in the south, doesn't it?