Burning Salt Water

[Ken Massingale]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296395,00.html

How long till the oil guys put a stop to this one?

[Thom2]

What are the odds that he'll be dead/missing within a month???

[LinuxRandal]

Come See Our New Attraction

The Burning Dead Sea!

[Stytooner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6vSx...related&search=

[Anna]

Well, since we're largely made up of salt and water, I just hope he won't be pointing his device at us.

[Ken Massingale]

Well, since we're largely made up of salt and water, I just hope he won't be pointing his device at us.

Speak for youself, Anna. Me, I'm largely sugar and water!

[Anna]

Speak for youself, Anna. Me, I'm largely sugar and water!

Huh? What happened to the alcohol??

Actually, I know you're really sweet, Ken.

Seriously, does anyone know what a "Faraday theoretical limit" is? It's supposed to be at 76% of the Faraday theoretical limit, but I've never seen that phrase before, and google does not come up with anything.

[Ken Massingale]

Huh? What happened to the alcohol??

Actually, I know you're really sweet, Ken.

Seriously, does anyone know what a "Faraday theoretical limit" is? It's supposed to be at 76% of the Faraday theoretical limit, but I've never seen that phrase before, and google does not come up with anything.

Sugar, water and all the spuds and bread I consume do their alcohol thing! ;-)

[Uncle Cracker]

Sawdust and beer...

[Anna]

Sugar, water and all the spuds and bread I consume do their alcohol thing! ;-)

I remember one time in class when the professor was telling us about a guy who had some kind of fungus growing in his intestinal tract. It turned any simple carbohydrate consumed by the guy into alcohol, producing symptoms of alcohol intoxification. In other words, it gets him drunk.

One of the students raised his hand and asked, "I don't understand what the problem is." The rest of the students agreed that's the kind of problem they'd like to have!

[dkerfoot]

I don't see anyone asking how much energy the machine that produces the radio waves uses. My guess is the process consumes more energy than it produces.

Sorry, I know it takes the fun out of it...

[Anna]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296395,00.html

How long till the oil guys put a stop to this one?

I'm still wondering....

Besides the thermodynamics implications (if it produces net energy, it violates the 2nd law), I wonder if he tried his device without the salt. If it works only with salt added, then how much salt? (Sea water is about 3%, I think). It would be interesting to have someone else replicate the experiment - that includes changing the test tubes, using purified water, research grade NaCl instead of table salt, etc.

I'm also wondering about the flame. In combustion, at least, yellow flame means low efficiency (much of the carbon is not burned), blue flame is high efficiency. I'm trying to remember what color flames are produced by Sodium and Chlorine. I don't think they're yellow flames, but I'm not sure. Otherwise, I don't know what else would cause the flame since there isn't supposed to be any carbon in the system.

There are claims that the process produces elemental sodium and chlorine.

Sodium metal burns spontaneously in air. I think it's explosive in water (sodium metal, not the ion).

Chlorine gas and hydrogen gas together can also be explosive. When they're burned together, the result should be muriatic acid, and that can be tested with a pH meter.

I'm just jotting down some thoughts. I could be wrong on any number of details, but this guy's stuff is interesting research, if it's real. There's been so many claims of producing energy from water, and they've all turned out to be hoaxes. I'd like to see this guy let others test his results in a controlled setting, without him around, but based on his methodology. I can't find much about the APV Polymer engineers, but I found an APV Coatings in Akron Ohio.

And I still can't figure out what 76% of Faraday's Theoretical Limit means.

[Thom2]

I don't see anyone asking how much energy the machine that produces the radio waves uses. My guess is the process consumes more energy than it produces.

Sorry, I know it takes the fun out of it...

The "perpetual motion" aspect crossed my mind, but I didn't see any facts stated that even presented a way to guess at how feasible the process is.

Interesting process nonetheless, I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this if it doesn't get buried by the "oil guys"

[Anna]

I don't see anyone asking how much energy the machine that produces the radio waves uses. My guess is the process consumes more energy than it produces.

It has to. Otherwise, it'll violate the First Law and the Second Law. And the real efficiency should be much much less than about 40% (I think that's the typical Carnot efficiency for the temperatures he's working at).

[jking]

Sodium metal burns spontaneously in air. I think it's explosive in water (sodium metal, not the ion).

Yes, sodium metal is explosive in water. IIRC, it must be stored in oil. My materials professor testified to the explosive nature of sodium one time in class. He stated that a certain amount of sodium (I don't recall how much) was capable of blowing a urinal off a bathroom wall. This was stated with a certain amount of authority; no one decided to ask how he came upon this information.