H1B Abuse Affecting American Workers

[Ken Massingale]

Please watch the videos and make your own decision on the petition.

[mater]

Lou pretty well summed it up.

[Uncle Cracker]

I'm in. Although this is an economic issue, it's also a political one. But since so many of the members of this forum have personally been affected by this trend, I hope the membership and the management will not oppose its discussion on this board. The outsourcing of trades to foreign countries makes us so much more cripplingly dependent on others at a time when we should be coming together to be much less so. And the pride in American craftsmanship that is the hallmark of so many of our jobs and our hobbies is going the way of the dinosaur. Our lawmakers simply can't let that happen. If my comments are over the line, then please accept my apologies.

[Ken Massingale]

I'm in. Although this is an economic issue, it's also a political one. But since so many of the members of this forum have personally been affected by this trend, I hope the membership and the management will not oppose its discussion on this board. The outsourcing of trades to foreign countries makes us so much more cripplingly dependent on others at a time when we should be coming together to be much less so. And the pride in American craftsmanship that is the hallmark of so many of our jobs and our hobbies is going the way of the dinosaur. Our lawmakers simply can't let that happen. If my comments are over the line, then please accept my apologies.

Uncle, I hope this thread isn't taken as political despite Dobbs comment at the end. This has been going on through several administrations and congressional elections.

[final_t]

"it's also a political one."

Yes, and that's why this thread should be whacked - aganst the posted rules. But there seems to be a bit much of posts in Coffee Pot that are edging towards that these days and drifting from a woodworking forum.

[Sawduster]

"it's also a political one."

Yes, and that's why this thread should be whacked - aganst the posted rules. But there seems to be a bit much of posts in Coffee Pot that are edging towards that these days and drifting from a woodworking forum.

Yeah, Heaven forbid that folks should talk about and take action against the crap the politicians try to slip by us in total oppostition to the will of the vast majority of the people.

[Anna]

Here's the current unemployment statistics. I don't see "54M working age Americans don't have a job" anywhere in there. The unemployment rate is historically very low (4.6%). Some states like Arizona are statistically "fully employed" (3+%).

I do agree that we should fix abuses to the law. But I'd be a little more wary of what the unions say about these issues. The unions have abuses of their own.

[Uncle Cracker]

Figures can be spun almost any way you want. For instance, "5% unemployed" does not mean that the 95% that are employed are in jobs commensurate with their skills or education, or even in jobs that pay enough for them to live. It just means they have a job. This does not directly relate to the problem of exporting skilled work to other countries. It's hard to deny that this is still a problem. That's why half this country is owned or controlled by foreign interests. We've sold our house without having anywhere else to live.

[Anna]

Figures can be spun almost any way you want. For instance, "5% unemployed" does not mean that the 95% that are employed are in jobs commensurate with their skills or education, or even in jobs that pay enough for them to live. It just means they have a job. This does not directly relate to the problem of exporting skilled work to other countries. It's hard to deny that this is still a problem. That's why half this country is owned or controlled by foreign interests. We've sold our house without having anywhere else to live.

It really is hard to discuss this without getting more into policy and politics.

But, to contain myself to the CFAW site, it didn't say "54 million working age Americans without a job commensurate to their skills or education." I know, I know. I am not trying to be a smart-ass here. I'm just a little wary of statistics coming from interested groups. And if it's easily disprovable like the 54 million number, then it makes me wonder about the rest of their claims.

It doesn't mean that there are no abuses to the H1B program, but we should look at this more dispassionately if we really want to fix it. I also agree that we should petition Congress to do something about it. But I wouldn't go so far as to believe the hyperbole in the CFAW website.

[Sawduster]

Here's a little different spin, regardless of what the real unemployment figures are. Congress recently found it neccesary to increase the national minimum wage. The fact that people still find it neccesary to take jobs paying whatever the minimum wage is in a market with under 6% unemployment has got to be a first in history. A shortage of available workers in the market place should have driven wages well above any arbitrary minumum wage but it did not. And why, pray tell was that? Because there are illegal aliens willing to do certain jobs, not that Americans will not do, but that Americans will not do for the wages the illegals are willing to do them for. Now these, of course, are jobs that can not easily be outsourced such as in construction and food service and the like.

The folks who had those jobs making decent wages are now working at Wallyworld or Big Orange for more than what the illegals are getting paid for their old jobs, but less than what they made doing the jobs the illegals now have.

[radhak]

I think we can discuss this without being political or even polemic : just the statistical parts is interesting, and it's easy for any interested party to use statistics for their own purposes.

The one-liner I like to quote the most is - Statistics are like the bikini : what they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital .

But to put it in context, CFAW talks about H1B workers, who are as 'legal' as they come. They want the law itself changed.
The minimum wages that congress raised are a whole different issue : not applicable for the common H1B programs, particularly the one CFAW is talking about (computer programmers, etc).

But whatever the case, that particular lawyer on the video seems to have had a 'beauty pageant moment' !

[LinuxRandal]

While I appreciate his sentiment, I think the corporations, aka clients of THIS law firm, are currently using the H1B visa's to try to hire another law firm, because of this publicity.


And I'll leave it at that.

[cwsmith]

IMHO, this is NOT a political discussion. I see no discussion along party lines of any type. It is about jobs though and I think that's a topic near and dear to all of our hearts.

I lost my job with a corporation after 27 years of service. On that particular day, 140-plus of my fellow employees also lost thiers.

The ironic part of this is that on the very day we were being scuttled, our CEO was accepting a check from the Governor for $10 Million... to expand the business within the state.

Within the month, the company transferred two major product lines... one to China, and one to India. So, $10 million taxpayer dollars were taken, worker protection laws were ignored, and jobs were sent to Asia. These are the issues that are seen in many communities and I think we need to be aware, especially in the face of continued efforts by many U.S. companies.

All of us need to hear of such things and discuss it openly, in order to be better informed. That's democracy. Pointing fingers at various parties, and politicians is political, so let us not go in that direction. Until the latter takes place, please let the discussion continue.

CWS

[Bruce Cohen]

Am I the only one to realize that unemployment figures END when an indiviual no longer receives checks from the state. Once one passes the time frame to collect, he falls into employment limbo. The Gov't is no longer aware that he is still out of work, he's no longer on the rolls and is off the database.

I've been out of a "real" job, the kind that I have an MFA for for five years and have taken much lower paying positions at Home Depot and a local frame shop.

I've gotten to the point that I now believe that the Gov't includes "off-shore" jobs in its percentage of those employed, skewing the numbers to look good.

You don't have to agree with me, but if you doubt it, I can give you the names of at least 15 formerly high-paid (6 figure salaries) people who have been reduced to working for almost minimum wage.

And I didn't say one politically slanted thing. just the facts, mam!

Bruce

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Well if we had maps and then like such as South Africa and Iraq would such as be a much better place for our children.

Miss Teen South Carolina