Thinking about a new car

[Ed62]

I've been looking at new cars, and I've made up my mind what I want. It's a new '07 Buick Lucerne CX. I don't want any options other than bench seats. Standard features make it pretty well equipped. But I want leather seats, which are not available on the CX. The salesman, who I bought from before, told me he could get the car I want, then have leather seats installed locally. I like this guy, and don't think he'd try to pull the wool over my eyes. I've known him for 12 years.

Now I'm shopping for the best price. I called 4 other dealers today, and 2 of them gave me prices that were from $700.00 to almost $1200.00 lower than my old salesman gave me. So I called him to let him know. He said he couldn't compete with the prices they gave me, and said there has to be a reason for the difference. He's willing to sit down, and show me anything I want to see, concerning the price they pay for the car or anything else . Of course they'll make a profit, but it will be marginal. Since no dealer within 40 miles of us has the car I want, all dealers I called have to get one from another dealer, just like him. He said the difference has to be in the leather, or in the car itself. He wants me to get the VIN number from his competitors, so he can see exactly what they're trying to sell me. He also wants me to find out who will do the leather work, the thickness of the leather, and the warranty for it. He seems to think the other dealers are using an inferior leather, rather than strying to push off a car that is something other than brand new. Leather upgrade from him was $1500.00, so that means the price from the others would have to be half or less (details which I don't have yet). What do you think? Any pointers for me?

Ed

[mater]

I would check myself to see what the leather upgrade would cost me from a reputable dealer and it may be the same one your dealer uses. I would also request a copy of the window sticker from each and you can check any differences yourself. They should be able to get this info off their computer. My former dealer whom I bought about 10 vehicles from over the years offered to get something done for me at his cost of a little over $400 in his words. With one phone call I found out who the business was that was going to do it and they did it for me at a cost of $179.00.

[ragswl4]

What do you think? Any pointers for me?

Ed

I apologize in advance for being so cynical but I personally would not trust any car salesman. Their income is based on their sales not friendship. I can't blame them, after all they are trying to make a living in a tough industry. I suggest going to edmunds.com and see what others are paying for the car you are buying.

I purchased my last four vehicles (including a 5th wheel) from the internet. Never set foot in a showroom. Saved $10,000 on the trailer compared to a "really great deal" at an RV show.

[ironhat]

It wouldn't be beyond the lower priced guys to be low-balling the car price because they plan to tack on non-negotiable add-ons. They may tell you that *all*of their cars have the 'x-y-z, super whammy upholstery and paint protector' and they just can't remove it or do it for nothing. I had something like that happen to me when I bought my truck. I went elsewhere, paid more and had no surprises.

[Ed62]

Thanks for the replies. I knew I could depend of the group for things I might not think of.

I apologize in advance for being so cynical but I personally would not trust any car salesman.

Realizing that's how they make a pretty good living was the reason I checked with other franchises. But I'll give him the sale if he can match prices, when we're comparing apples to apples.

Ed

[crokett]

Ed, sounds like he is willing to do a lot of work to get your business, including doing what is really your responsibility which is to figure out why the other dealers have a price that is so much lower on what is purportedly the same car. Your salesman has every right to tell you the price is the price, take it or leave it. I'd go as var as getting the VINs and taking him up on his offer. You don't lose anything by doing that.

[cabinetman]

I had recently posted a thread about help in making a decision on a new vehicle. I don't really want to gloat, but two weeks ago on the weekend, wife and I got TWO new vehicles, different makes, from separate dealers.

I don't think there would be too much of a difference between leather interiors. Either the car has leather or not. It could be just leather seats, or trim leather on the seats in conjunction with vinyl. But the basic difference in cost is moot unless you have the itemized standard equipment list and the included options. They will have "tack on" charges that you can argue down. Also, you don't have to hang around. It's amazing what happens when you yawn and mention leaving.

We started getting the run around in the sales cubicle about everything except the cost of the vehicle. Three or four times, the salesman would run to the managers office and come back. I finally said, that unless we get to it, I'm walkin' out. So, be sure your drivers license is back in your wallet, and you have your car keys handy (sometimes the salesman misplaces them).

[cgallery]

(1) Your guy is quoting hard numbers. He WILL sell you the car for that price.

(2) Other guys are quoting soft numbers. Once in the showroom they will play every game at their disposal ("oh, you didn't want orange leather?") to get you to agree to more $$$.

(3) There are huge differences in leather interiors. But everyone promises top grain and tries to pass an embossed split.

I don't think the difference in quotes is substantial enough to insult me, especially seeing as the other dealers are going to try to jack you when you walk through their door. So, I'd check with the guy you've been dealing with for years and find out who would do the leather work. Then I'd check their rep. w/ some local custom body shops and make sure they do good work. If yes, I'd sign the papers and not worry if the dealer made a few hundred bucks extra.

[Ed62]

From what I've found online, top quality leather cut to fit the car runs around $800.00. Then you can install it yourself (not recommended unless experienced), or if not experienced you have to have it installed locally. It takes approximately 4 hours to make the transition from cloth to leather. So I would figure a minimum of $200.00 for installation. Maybe my guy is not really as high as I thought he might be. He said they've been using the same place for leather transitions for 32 years. He claims it's top quality, and comes with the same warranty as the OEM.

Ed

[messmaker]

Just a sidenote. Buick and Lexus just tied for #1 in quality(J.D. Power) during the last testing period. That is a very strong showing by Buick. Nice choice.

[Scottydont]

READ THIS AND TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. As an old car guy, I worked in Dealerships for 17 years and have been selling computer sytems to car dealers for 10 years. My philoshophy is simple information = money.

My best advice is to get detailed facts. Ask for a written quote and copies of the invoice or equipment specs on the proposed vehicles. Also note that even if they show you the invoice cost that may not reflect the dealers true cost. Often dealers are given incentives or "holdback" money by the manufacturer that are not shown on the invoice to help them maintain profitable sales in a competetive market.

Dealers are experiencing a down market with declining sales and profits. Buyers who are willing to do some research, collect FACTS, and be willing to state their terms based on those facts and be willing to walk away stand to save themselves a great deal of money. The same facts buyers the advantage buy reducing the negotiables that the dealer has.

As a result, two years ago I did my homework and bought a new truck for $17,600 that most buyers would pay around $20,000 for. That kind of technical "sweat equity" is worth it IMHO.

As for the specific vehile it is very common for dealers to dealer trade for vehicles thay don't have. Special ordering is not a bad way to go if you are looking to be specific about what trim packages and options you want but when buying more base model kind of stuff I would favor in stock or a dealer trade.

As for add on leather I would recommend buying the vehicle and sourcing a shop to do it on your own. Otherwise otherwise the dealer is going to get the opportunity tomark it up increasing your cost. If the dealer has it done you won't have the choice of the vendor doing it.

Another thing that is common that pushes my buttons is a "doc fee" on sales contracts. Most dealers charge doc fees around $250 but it is not negotiated as part of the sale. Most dealers take doc fee's as pure profit without any specific cost. I DONT PAY DOC FEES! If they don't take it off I walk. To a decent size car dealer that sells 250 cars a month, that would be $750K a year. If they could sell it to me as a true cost of doing business I'ld pay for it.

Keep in mind that I don't treat salespeople or managers with disrespect I just explain my buying process and clearly state my expectations. Car dealers want you to think they are the ones with all of the power. If you are an informed buyer you are. Trust me informed buyers know more than most salesman because the buyer has done thier homework. My company serves over 11,000 car dealers and I know that there are plenty of them that I can get a good deal from by making them sell value based on hard costs not soft costs or speculation, keep them honest and save me the most money on the second biggest purchasable item in my life.

[Ed62]

Wow Scott! That's quite a post. Thanks very much for the info.

Ed

[tuttlejr]

Some dealers will "low ball" you on price just to get you into the store.

Find a good trim shop for the leather seats. Check around to find out where premium dealers send their work to.

At the end of a sales year the dealership gets a percentage of what they sell back as a rebate. Even if you pay "invoice" the dealer still makes money. Do not ever buy the protective polish or upholstery items. Pure profit centers.

[Ed62]

Well, I did quite a bit of checking on prices, and checked on what the dealer pays (as best I could).

I'm actually buying the car for my wife, and we had 4 different cars to check out at home. She decided to go with cloth seats instead of leather. She also wanted bucket seats instead of bench seats. Both of those were surprises to me. We've only been married a little less than 50 years, so I thought I knew her. Yeah, right!

When I went in to talk to the dealer, he knew I had figures to go by. Before I went in, I thought if I could get the car she wanted for $XXX.XX, I'd buy it. The very first figure he gave me was only about $125.00 over what I was willing to pay. I told him we were close, and if he'd knock another $285.00 off, we had a deal. He took my offer, so I actually got the car for about $160.00 less than I was willing to pay. Thanks very much for the help. It came in handy, and now maybe I'll have enough to renew my membership here.

Ed

[footprintsinconc]

well, that was quite an experience. congradulations on the purchase! hopefully your wife will enjoy the car.