Boat People...I Need Help

[cabinetman]

I know the saying about a hole in the water that you throw your money in. The last boat I had was in the 70's, and it was a 18ft aluminum with a 75 HP OB, and cuddy cabin, with trailer. I had a lot of fun with it and it was fairly inexpensive to keep.

For a long while I've been wanting another boat. What I'm interested in getting is a cabin style somewhere between 25ft and 30ft. I would like it to be trailerable. I have room at home for it sitting on a trailer, and I have access to slip storage if I desire. Some details that are important are that I want a full galley and head, preferably stand-up. Would like it to sleep at least 4-6 in case friends come for a weekend. I would also like it to have an enclosed cabin (if possible), with an open aft area for fishing.

Now for a question. I have seen different power methods. There's 1-3 outboard motors, 1-2 I/O drives both diesel and gas, and then there's inboard 1-2 motors. I can see the advantage of multiple motors (in case one fails). But I need advice which type would offer the best performance, economy and reliability. I'm also thinking that there may be those moments that I'd want to strap on a pair of skis.

I've been looking at used boats just because of the cost. I'm not averse to a fixer-upper. I'm also thinking fiberglass instead of wood. I've got a slight case of drool for a weekend on the water. Maybe I should just rent and get it out of my system. But, If I buy one, I'll invite all the forum members down for a weekend outing.

[Uncle Cracker]

In general, it's wise to make sure you've considered all the costs involved before taking the plunge. Maintenance, upkeep and insurance are all expensive on a boat nowadays. Salt water usage and exposure are another consideration, as this will complicate the wear and tear. Fuel costs, especially at a marina, are gonna make you cry, particularly on a larger boat (think about filling a 100 gallon tank at $3.50 per, every time you cruise around for a day).

It's also good to be realistic about your usage. The bigger the boat, the bigger the production to haul it around, put it in, and pull it out. Do you have a big enough tow vehicle? Remember that towing a boat is harder on your tow, too. It is normal to use a boat a lot when you first buy it, but as time goes by, you will start finding ways to talk yourself out of using it ("Gotta rearrange my sock drawer..."). Also, a big cruiser is not the ideal ski tow, as speed and maneuverability will be limited, and most of them wallow out a huge wake that can beat a skier half to death. And then there's that fuel consumption thing again... You can beat the problems of towing the boat around by keeping it in the water, but then you will be limited geographically, and you will need to keep current with your anti-fouling bottom paint, and will need to replace most underwater metal from time to time.

If you get past all that, then here are some considerations you will have regarding engine type:

Outboards have excellent weight-to-power ratios, and will leave you with more room in your boat. They are easier to replace if you come to that old re-powering junction in the road. They're also easier to steal, and can crack if frozen (I realize you won't have that problem in FL). They're often a PITA to work on, so it would help if you have an OB mechanic in the family. An outboard (or two or three) can also get in the way if your cruiser has only limited rear deck space, or if you want a swim platform on your boat. You will also have to deal with the 2-cycle/4-cycle dilemma if you have outboards. The only thing I'll say about that here is don't get an oil-injected 2-cycle.

Straight inboard engines are usually found on the larger cruisers, and on ski boats. The engines are usually more accessible and easier to work on, but you do have a lot of hardware hanging off the bottom of the boat, which makes for problems in shallows, and you don't even want to think of what can happen if you hit a sandbar at speed. It's also more of a pain to trailer straight inboards.

Inboard/outboard engines enjoy many of the advantages of both of the previous types, but at the same time, suffer many of the pitfalls of both. Your outdrive(s) are easily stolen, and suffer terribly in salt water. You will have the maintenance of a conventional engine to deal with, plus that of the outdrives, as well. You will gain some space inside your boat over a straight inboard, and trailering will be easier.

If there was a clear answer as to which is best, there would only be one type available. Fact is, it's a matter of finding the right combination for your boat, your usage, and your comfort.

Many of these factors will also be affected by the ultimate size and type of boat you have, and there are many permutations, and obviously, many exceptions. Just try to look past the honeymoon, and see if you will be happy with the marriage. Not trying to kill your buzz... I love boating... I'm just sayin'

[Thom2]

I'm not a boat person by any means, but after reading Cracker's reply, this is the only thing that comes to mind ....

[crokett]

As my Dad says about boats: "Go to the bank and withdraw a bunch of your money in 100.00 bills. "Now go to the lake, stand on the dock and start throwing them in the water. "You've just done the same thing as owning a boat, only with a lot less hassle".

[JR]

I stare at boats from time to time, although I don't currently own one. Cracker has given you lots of good advice. I will add that your goals may need some adjusting.

Boats in the 25'-30' foot range are not frequently configured for sleeping 4-6 persons, with a stand-up head and galley. If you find one so configured it will probably have a very substantial superstructure, making it a pretty stodgy boat unsuitable for skiing, and not a great fishing boat. As Cracker suggested, this size is the maximum trailerable size, so you'd need a pretty good sized truck.

You live in a great area for boating, and there are lots of fun boats in your target size range. You'll probably have to compromise a bit on your goals, leaning one way or another on the comfort/fun scale.

Check out Craigslist.

JR

[MikeMcCoy]

One thing you mentioned is economy and I know that can be a subjective thing. We went fishing out to the ledge about 50 miles or so out in the Atlantic last Sunday and at the end of the day when we figured fuel, bait, ice etc. we spent just a little over $300. Fuel consumption was a little over 80 gallons of that and that was with brand new twin 200HP motors.

[pierhogunn]

My dad bought a boat, and at first was in love wit it, but the nearest boat marina that mom liked was 1 hour away ( Greenville NC to Little Washington NC), and they hated the trip to there and back each time a little tropical something popped up

If I ever own a boat, it will be because I am wealthy enough to be able to call up the boat boy at the local Marina, and say have it ready to go and pointing the right way by X o'clock, with the following food items on board, or even better, call up captian carl to have the helo pick me up to drop me off on my yacht

[Tom Slick]

The best two days in a boat owners life are the day he buys it and the day he sells it!
or
Boats are great! as long as they are someone elses!

sorry no real information to add.

[cabinetman]

Uncle Cracker

Thanks for an extensive breakdown. You forgot gas vs diesel. But that's OK, I can work out the details while looking around. I've spent a lot of time searching Boat Trader. Some very good deals. I guess the real question is to try to find something that has a little bit of everything...if that's possible. Meanwhile it's a hoot looking. Makes your mind wander. A while back we spent the day on one of my friends' 39' Ericson sailboat. It's an older one, but what a beauty. That is a different trip altogether.

As my Dad says about boats: "Go to the bank and withdraw a bunch of your money in 100.00 bills. "Now go to the lake, stand on the dock and start throwing them in the water. "You've just done the same thing as owning a boat, only with a lot less hassle".

Davey - All I can say to that is there is differences in how people find pleasures in life. Some cost more than others. It's what we're willing to pay for those moments. I used to eat out a lot. What do I have to show for all that money...a bunch of menus.

[jessrice]

I have to chime in with the rest on the economy of owning a boat!

I have a fiberglass 20' 1989 seaswirl I/O ski boat. It has a 96" beam, open bow, with a ford 351 Windsor V8.

Our boating season, here in eastern Washington, for the average ski boat is late April to late september. Of course fishing is year round in this area, but there isn't much protection from the elements on an open bow boat!

So we basically get a 6 month window to use the boat, but pay insurance the whole year. Luckily I am building my super shop to store it in, but some actually pay storage fees as well.

If the wife, kid, and i go out, for a day of heavy skiing, tubing, or just running the river, we burn 25 gallons of gas, easy. If we take out several people, i normally have extra gas in the truck so i can refill during the day.

When i bought the boat gas was only 1.00 gallon, and it was very cheap and exciting entertainment, and we boated 4-5 days a week. Now that we are paying over 3.00 a gallon on shore, almost 4.00 on the water, we have drastically reduced the boating.

Actually this year, we have been out 1 time. To add insult to this injury, when we bought our current house, one of the motivations was its location to the boat launch, which i can actaully back down to from my driveway, if i wanted to show off!

And its not that I am cheap, well okay I am, but if we were to boat every Saturday, it would cost me an extra 300.00 per month, and every weekend would easily be 600.00, times that by our 6 month window, and that's an extra 3600.00 yearly! for what use to be only 1200.00

In addition, there is yearly maintenance that has to be done, licenses, all the extras like lines, vests, skis, and other gear.

So a boat the size you are thinking is going to be fairly costly if you use it regularly.

I tell the wife all the time we should sell it, but luckily it has been paid off for years, so at least we are not throwing a monthly payment at it anymore.

But for the positive side, I have a ton of great memories from boating the last 18 years. It really is enjoyable, and the more you can do on the boat the better it spreads out the expenses.

Something like your mentioned, with a head and galley, plus sleeping quarters is just like taking a vacation, and if that's is something you normally budget for and this is replacing then it is great.

In addition, if you are going to finance something like this, since it has a stove and toilet, it is considered a second home by the IRS and you can deduct the interest.

Now, that I have said all of this, every year my wife and I go to the boat shows and look at new aliminum jet boats, with all the goodies and say how nice it would be to have a year round boat, that could be used for fishing and skiing and the like. The model she fell in love with last year was a 22' model with a 8.1 liter gas chevy engine, for about $62,000.00, but they offered 20 year financing!

SO i guess once the bug has bitten, it is hard to get away. i have ofter heard the saying "the happiest days of a boat owners lives are the day that is bought and the day it is sold"

Jesse

[scmhogg]

Some years ago, I had a friend that owned a Bayliner that he allowed me to use. This fits the "someone else's boat" criteria.

It was 25' +/- long. It looked a lot like the current Bayliner Discovery 246. It was docked at a marina. But, it was trailerable. Full galley, slept 4 easily, head & shower, etc. This was on the Pacific in SoCal. It was good for trips to Catalina and up and down the coast. It handled some pretty heavy seas.

Check for used boats. New boats depreciate faster than new cars.

Steve

[Russianwolf]

I will give a thumbs up to deisel engines if they are available in the style you want to go with.

They usually last longer than gas versions since they are made of much stouter parts. They have fewer moving parts so are much easier to fix. the fuel cost is usuaully about the same as gas, but you get more energy out of it so you use less. And the big thing, deisel engines are much better at producing torque which is what you need to move water. (as one friend says, "horses aren't too good for treading water")

There is one other option for inboards. Rotary gassers. They get most of the benefits of Deisel, while using gas. But they are hard to find usually.

[maxparot]

I'm similarly looking to purchase a good used boat after a number of years without owning one. What I can tell you is the cost of ownership and headache is directly proportionate to the size and number of engines. Having said that if your looking at a boat larger than 25' then 2 engines has 2 advantages manueverability and having the safety of redundancy. Larger boats do not make for good sking the wake tends to be too large along with fuel consumption.
As for what type of engine it may be more a personal choice than anything else but inboard engine may have the advantage of sharing design with automotive engines. Outboard and I/O setups have the advantage of being able to change props quickly and easily with the boat in the water.

[dkhoward]

if it is economy you ware interested in, perhaps you should opt for the sort of boat I have and use regularly. The fuel is cheak and, in West Texas" plentiful. It has all the amenities you seek, head, galley, sleeping quarters, etc.

[cabinetman]

Dennis - She is beautiful. What's the details? Year? Make? Length? Beam? Do you have a trailer for her (if she's trailerable).