Do you have what it would take?

[Ed62]

This thread was inspired by the "When the going gets tough.." thread. I wondered how many of us really have what it takes when a critical situation bears it's ugly head.

If you were suddenly faced with a critical situation, would you just freeze, or would you be the one to keep your head, and act appropriately? I think it depends on whether or not someone else is acting, of if it falls squarely on your shoulders. Here's why I say that:

While I was working in a steel mill, another guy got his legs trapped between 2 very heavy pieces of steel, which were hydraulically operated. When a hydraulic line burst, it allowed 1 of the pieces of steel to suddenly move above the other, pinching his legs. There were probably 12 - 15 guys at the scene when it happened. I froze, having absolutely no idea what to do. All the others froze too, with the exception of 1 guy. He immediately grabbed tools to dismantle the machinery, thereby freeing the man's legs. Without someone acting, the man probably would have bled to death. He lost both legs, but he didn't lose his life. In this instance, I failed.

The other thing that happened, was when we went into a McDonald's for lunch. There were 5 of us working, and it was lunchtime. Whenever we went to a fast food joint, the first thing we'd do would be to go to the men's room to wash up a little before ordering. I was the last in line.

A woman had her son, about 4 years old, there for lunch, and they were eating as we came in. As I walked past them, the boy was choking. His mother was pounding him on the back, but it seemed to make things worse. They were the only other people there, except for the employees. The boy couldn't breathe, and pounding on his back was not helping. I told her not to do that, and she stepped out of the way. I grabbed the boy, and began the heimlich (sp.?) maneuver on him. It took several tries, but I was finally successful, getting him to release a large piece of meat. I'm not sure the medical community still recommends the action I took, but it worked that time. If someone else had been there to help him, I'm not sure I would have acted.

Do you think people are forced into action by circumstances? I do.

Ed

[Pappy]

After 17 years as a firefighter, it is anmost second nature to step in and act. Last incident was a roll over on it's side on the Interstate, 5 or 6 people standing around. Fluids were dropping on the exhaust pipe and flaring up. A trucker hit about the same time I did, with an extinguisher. I told him to watch the fluids but not to use it unless the flames got big. I climbed up and went in through the passenger door to check on the driver. He was not hurt, other some bumps, so I got his seat belt off and helped him climb out. When the DPS Trooper, fire, and EMS arrived asked if they needed my info, walked back to my truck and left.

[gmack5]

It happened to me!

I was at a Cafe for a midnight snack, we had been to a business meeting and we had all decided to stop and get a bite to eat. (there were about 30 of us)

I was sitting about two tables away from my friend and I noticed that he had begun to choke. Several other people gathered around, presumedly to watch him choke, cause they all just stood looking at the poor guy and no one was doing anything to try to help him.

I jumped out of my seat, told the "onlookers" to get out of the way, and positioned myself behind his chair and told him to try to stand up as I put my arms around his middle, positioning my folded hands such that my thumbs were in towards him just below his solar plexis. As he started to stand up, I pulled hard towards myself and buried my thumbs in his gut just under his solar plexis. Out popped a pretty good sized piece of meat!

I asked him why he had tried to swallow such a large piece of meat? He said that someone had clapped him on the back right after he had put it in his mouth. Had I not been there, I think the others would have stood and watched him die!

[gwyneth]

George, one of the Royal Bank of Scotland's tv ads uses almost exactly that same scenario--people standing around goggle-eyed until one guy with common sense steps up.

When I lived in remote northern Maine I never got used to people who didn't anticipate the possibility that anything can happen. (It's possible for a car there to skid off a US highway and remain undetected for days.)

Not just not being prepared with blankets, shovel, food, etc. in trunk, but driving 30 miles without a winter coat on!

Heck, even when I lived in Florida I kept a down jacket balled up in the corner of the trunk...you never know.

[leehljp]

I am not partial to bloody situations and avoid looking at a shot needle if possible. Having said that, I have been in two situations where someone was injured and everyone either stood there or looked/ran away.

If no one will help who has proper knowledge, I will step in and do what I can. Did that once for a fellow with a hand split open by heavy machinery and another time for a fellow with the palm side of the fore arm sliced to the bone by a machete in the forests of Panama near the San Blas Islands.

[rbfunk]

The first rule that I was taught at EMT class was don't become a victim yourself. The second was don't cause the patient any more harm. After a while you get very good at knowing what was going on around you at a scene even while you are treating a patient.
Ed, I think in both situations you did the right thing. In the first, you didn't act blindly and get hurt yourself or cause the poor guy any further harm.
In the second, you saved a life. And yes, you may have to do the Heimlich more then once. My hat is off to you sir. Those of us who have acted in an a emergency and achieved a positive outcome know that feeling. It's OK is you had the shakes afterwards too.
BTW I think that everyone should take a basic First Aid and a CPR course. There was one high school around here that made it a requirement for graduation and I think it was a grand idea.
Bob

[cabinetman]

As a youngster I was taught in the home to be a reactive individual. I guess my father drummed it into me. Then came the Cub Scouts, and then the Boy Scouts, and then the Army. Yes, to top it all off it was the Army, the most reactive training anyone could receive.

Now to take this thread into a place it should go, I have to mention the "Good Samaratin" philosophy. Back in the late 70's I used to ride my motorcycle several nights a week, just to get out and relax. I would at times stop at the beach and just sit there and look at the ocean or watch the tourists shop at the stores across the street.

This one night as I was minding my own business, I saw down the beach some guy just wailing on a girl, man he was just beating on her with his fists. I ran over there and subdued the guy and in the meantime someone else called the police. When the cops got there, the guy was a little bloody himself (from me stopping him). The girl not wanting her boyfriend to get in trouble, proceeds to tell the cops I was the one to attack both of them!!! So, I got cuffed, taken to jail, and my bike had to be towed.

By the time I sat around waiting to get booked, one of the shop owners from across the street called the police station and told them they saw everything and couldn't understand why I was arrested. They had to come down to fill out a report. When they were asked why they didn't speak up sooner, their reply was that they didn't want to get involved.

So, what did I get out of it...a nice little running exercise, some hand to hand combat, 4-5 hours out of my life, a hefty towing charge, and a cab ride home. Would I do it again...you bet.
.

[jseklund]

I don't think I've ever really been in a situation where it was life or death. The closest was a time that I was pulling off the highway and noticed a car in a tree on the off-ramp. There was one tree in the center island and the car was sideways against it. The exit sign had also been hit. Another car that actually saw the accident 2 seconds before had stopped and I came up right behind and stopped. We were walking towards the car, and I was thinking- drivers door is wrapped around the tree- whoever is in there is in trouble. Well, no one was in there. Probably one of the eeriest feelings I've ever had. Car was running, windsheild wipers going, empty car.

We turned around and about 40 feet away there was a woman on the ground, unconcious. It was cold and snow was on the ground. I took off my wool winter coat and put it over her, being careful not to touch or move her, and called 9-1-1. I checked for her breathing- not that I know CPR really- but I know enough to make sure they have a heart beat and are breathing. She was still alive, and didn't seem to have any major injuries, but there was blood dripping from her mouth (would have made for an interesting CPR attempt I guess- since I wasn't prepared with any kind of dental **** either). Anyway, the paramedics came, shaved her head, secured her neck and took her away. I knew one of the cops who arrived at the scene and a few weeks later he said she came out of it OK- and very lucky.

However, this is an interesting question. There is a book called Influence written by Robert Cialdini. It is considered THE book on the subject. One of the things he talks about is an incident where a woman in New York was being beaten by her boyfriend or husband. She ran out into the streets and was yelling. Some people turned on their lights. He kept beating her in the streets. It went on for quite a while until he finally stabbed her to death and killed her. All while at least 50 neighbors watched.

There is a study they did where they put 2 people in a room to take a test. As they were brought to the room where they would take the test, they were walked past a janitor on a ladder. In the middle of the test, they tipped the ladder (making the noise as if the janitor had fallen off the ladder). They had a shill taking the test who acted as if everything was normal. Usually the other person would follow suite- looking around at first, but then returning to the test. However, in the same instance, if the shill showed concern, the other person would also take action.

What these two instances really point out- we take a lot of information in about what is going on around us, and we are constantly using that information to assess how we should act/react. If there are 50 people, and no one is taking action, all 50 people look to the other 49 to see if they should react and when they see nothing they usually follow suite. It's not that we are not caring, but if the information we are subconciously receiving is saying, "Everything is OK. No one else is nervous, you don't need to be." then we act accordingly.

I know there are lots of stories like this- and I'm sure they will be brought up a lot in this thread. I also know medical response training usually teaches people to actually point at specific people and tell them to act. I.e.- you don't say, "Somebody help!" you say, "YOU! Help!" I also try to train myself with this knowledge, and be aware of when the information I'm receiving from others may not be appropriate and take action myself. Luckily, I've never been in too bad a situation yet....

[prlundberg]

I would like to think I would take action, but until I'm actually in that kind of situation I really can't give an answer.

I have stopped to help cars in the ditch in the winter, but they weren't serious situations.

[jackellis]

My wife takes recurrent first aid training and would act instinctively so long as doing so did not endanger her or anyone else. She's led backpacking trips every summer but one for the last 30+ years and has had to deal with emergencies more than once.

In an airplane where the tasks are flying-related, I'd be fine. In other situations, I'm not so sure.

[gwyneth]

But we should not think of reaction just in terms of first aid or necessarily helping others. The "prepared" mindset includes but is not limited to those.

In road racing school they try to teach drivers to constantly think in several dimensions...so your subconscious is always considering what possibilities are lurking around the next corner.

I don't know about now, but a few decades ago, Girl Scout camp did a fantastic job of developing kids as young as fourth graders to be prepared, work with others, anticipate and react responsibly. There were even "wide games" that these days sound like mini-FEMA excercises--some kind of pretend disaster with an elaborate setup that required assorted reactions from every unit and patrol.

Maybe most important, it minimized the chances of learning helplessness...because in almost every situation the very worst thing is automatically deciding we cannot do anything.

[Hellrazor]

The first rule that I was taught at EMT class was don't become a victim yourself.

I get yelled at about that by the fire company. I am first on the list when we have an alarm call at any of our buildings at work. If its security, fire, automatic fire, etc. I always enter the building to make sure its clear since some idiots assume its ok to stay inside and ignore the alarm, identify the problem, report the issue to fire/police upon their arrival. Every time I do that I get yelled at for not waiting for them.

They don't like my "When you arrive its your scene, until then its mine. If I see a smoke plume upon arrival, you'll find me outside calling in a structure fire response, otherwise I will be inside checking the alarm system status to identify the problem."

Not a whole lot phases me on emergency calls. You roll with it, make quick intelligent decisions and hope its something simple. I've dealt with 2 large co2 discharges due to rate of rise sensor problems which meant evacuating the building when it was between 5 and 10F outside, multiple false alarms due to smoke detectors, a security threat lockdown, multiple phase loss issues and the mess that follows them in the past 2 years.

Another time I noticed an individual acting odd, claimed he couldn't get his truck in gear. He was sweating, kept missing reverse while shifting gears, slurred speech, didn't make an ounce of sense. I finally got him to shutoff the truck and get out while I notified his son-in-law... landed up being a diabetic with a low blood sugar problem.

2 days later I had one of my employees tell me another one left because he didn't feel good and was sleeping in his car. Symptoms: Dizzy, tired, didn't make a whole lot of sense and not to mention he is 70. So I went outside to find him and he was laying in his car waiting for someone to pick him up. Went on to find out he ran in a marathon the day before, didn't eat supper, got up late and didn't eat breakfast... suspected a low blood sugar issue again. They gave him a high energy snack bar and he was fine within the hour.

Odd having that happen twice in 2 days.

[dkhoward]

I have to step in line here and, like Pappy, I spent a whole career (25 years as a fire fighter on a large metro fire department. I still jump when something happens. I think a lot of it is training and I find I still fall back into "incident" mode when something inforeseen happens and I am the one that gets there first.

Dennis