Lying On An Employment Application

[cabinetman]

I've caught several employees in an outright lie on their employment application. In Florida, employers are somewhat protected by laws that prohibit most information sharing that would influence future employment for the individual. Commenting on personality and character can get an employer in a jam. Most of the information can only be to verify employment.

Before the internet and the online abilities to search someone's background, employers had only the information on the employment application to use as a source. Bad info could be withheld, "informed" references could back up a lie, and past employment could be supposed companies that were out of business.

As an example, I had one applicant that put on his application he had 16 years experience in woodworking. His name was "Al". Actually we called him "Big Al" because he was huge. He was about 6'-5" and somewhere between 350 lbs and 400 lbs. He did make a great shop guy when stuff had to be lifted or torn off a wall. All of his references were either out of state or out of business. After giving him certain tasks it was obvious he never worked in a cabinet shop or a woodworking shop. Well, he didn't show up for work for several days and I find out he's in jail for aggravated assault. Also found out the 16 years he put on the application was in prison for manslaughter. The woodwork he claimed proficiency in was repair to wood benches in the prison yard.

Another scenario was a guy I hired as a "foreman" who claimed to have lengthy shop experience in most phases and listed some places he worked. After watching him in the shop I decided to call those places just to check out his references. One of the work references was his girlfriend who was set up as a fake reference to lie about him. The other was a shop that never heard of him. When confronted with the news, he said there must be some mistake.

A lesson learned in those days was to check out all references even if they were out of state. I wound up doing it in writing if I had to. Some employees know that they may never be checked out.

I'm a big Court TV fan. I was watching a trial where one female witness was questioned about her past employment and it came out that at one job she had lied on her employment application. She never thought that it would be found out, especially in a court of law.

Nowadays it's much easier to check out references, and pull criminal records.The FDLE (Florida Department Of Law Enforcement), and local agencies do provide online public records. As for other records, most public records can be searched for free, in some cases or for a small fee. Those costs could be a lot less than what an employee can cost an employer in the end.
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[sparkeyjames]

It's funny that you should post an article with this subject as I was thinking of this the other day in light of the Detroit zoo CEO scandal. (he put on his resume that he had a certain Phd. when he did not) This was found out after he had many many years of service at the zoo. Anyway lying on an employment application in my opinion is grounds for immediate dismissal do not pass go do not collect another paycheck.


sparkeyjames

[gsmittle]

Once in a while I've toyed with the idea of "embellishing" my resume, but I figure that the first thing I'll be asked to do will be the thing I don't know how to do. That and I'm basically pretty honest.

In a previous life I had hiring and firing responsibilities. In one cover letter the applicant stated that she had never done this type of work before but was willing to learn whatever was necessary. I hired her after the first interview. She turned out to be one of the best hires I ever made. She's still working there and I'm not. Go figure.

To my mind, honesty is the best policy. So you don't get hired--at least you still have your principles.

g.

[JoeyGee]

And you want to be my latex salesman...

[Uncle Cracker]

Two problems: 1) Potential employees who lie, and 2) potential employers who don't check backgrounds. One must recognize that there is something to be gained by the first, i.e. a person needs a job and knows that his real background lacks the ingredients to get that job for him, or has too many ingredients. Many do not realize that falsifying ones history is at the very least, grounds for subsequent firing, and is often illegal, as in uttering a false document or fraud. There also could be civil penalties. Others are aware that much of such conduct goes undetected or is too expensive to prosecute, so they aren't concerned. Potential employers, on the other hand, must unfortunately shoulder a percentage of the blame, because educational backgrounds are easily verifiable, and public records are also available regarding criminal and civil histories. The smart money is to let a professional service who knows how and where to look, perform the searches, as the cost is easily offset by the potential gain in time and resources. They will also look for credit problems, as a bad credit history may indicate irresponsibility, or a need to make money faster than they can earn it. They will also look for evidence of identity theft, which is a real problem these days. Also, closer monitoring will make this a less lucrative endeavor for the frauds, and help everybody in the long run. And its just common sense to realize that somebody who really has the qualifications is going to make it easy for you to check them out, rather than putting down the names of dead people, or stating that they received degrees from non-existent or non-accredited schools. If it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck, so doing one's homework on the front end takes a little extra time and/or money, but makes for eventual dividends. This is one of those ounces of prevention that everybody talks about. Check them out, and then you'll know. Its also equally important that you be just as selective in choosing the firm through which you get the background checks, as there are reliable ones, but also shady ones.

[cabinetman]

Two problems: 1) Potential employees who lie, and 2) potential employers who don't check backgrounds. One must recognize that there is something to be gained by the first, i.e. a person needs a job and knows that his real background lacks the ingredients to get that job for him, or has too many ingredients. Many do not realize that falsifying ones history is at the very least, grounds for subsequent firing, and is often illegal, as in uttering a false document or fraud. There also could be civil penalties.

You're absolutely right. One answer for employers is to have a document that is somewhat like an "S.O.P" that details conditions of employment. Even though most employment applications have a final statement that the applicant signs which in essence says that all the foregoing statements are true and correct, an additional condition in accepting employment would be under a specified period of probation. That in signing a false document is grounds for immediate dismissal. This could hold true for a statement that refers to facts on a resume. Flowering up a resume is as improper as lying. Whatever happened to "telling it like it is"?

Has the demands of our society made it that way?

[leehljp]

HONESTY, what happened to it?

Then there are "degrees of honesty" in all of us. More on this later.

In the thread "Would you give up woodworking for a million dollars", I didn't take it as a joke but a reality. I was surprised at the answers of take the money and hide the fact that you would do woodworking in secret. Maybe some took it as a joke, but I looked at the question as it was asked.

Fudging, I might fudge (embellish) on some things, but I will be honest about my fudging and admit to myself and others if I do. IIRC: In the John Wayne movie "Cowboys", JW said to one man: I can understand rustling when a man is hungry, but I can't stand a liar."

OTOH: Most of us do that with our spouses and kids:
1. LOML: "Does my new hair style look good honey?" Reply: "It looks beautiful! ( )
2. Our pride and joy child: "Daddy, Look at this picture that I drew for you!" Daddy's response: WOW, Wonderful! A Rembrandt!

I once got into a "disagreement" with a guy who was leading a "coaching" seminar in which he spoke of honesty all the way through. I pointed out - not in the area of spouses and our own kids - and gave the two illustrations above. He replied, "To my wife, I would say,- honey, that sure looks different. To my kid I would say - My, you sure put a lot of effort into it."

I replied: "Then you must not be married." He lost some of his credibility.

BUT - back to honesty - The motivation for honesty is the hardest point. Some do it out of fear of getting found out, and some do it out of their own character and that is "who they are". Back in my kid days, that was a big issue in terms of who you did business with. Men of Character and integrity. Those days are all but gone.

[Uncle Cracker]

It goes without saying that honesty is not black and white, but a matter of shades of gray. It's not right to equate a falsehood to spare a loved one's feelings with falsely misrepresenting one's credentials on a signed employment application. One is an issue of caring, while the other is one of trust, not to mention legality.

[crokett]

For the first several years of my professional life I was a contractor. I averaged a new gig about every 6 months. I never told an outright lie on my resumes but I certainly stretched the truth a little as to what my qualifications were. I made sure I could always back up what I said though.

[BasementDweller]

I work for a company that does a lot of background checks on folks. And I can second the statement that you need to let the pros do it. People that do these all day everyday can smell a bogus resume in a stack of 100. 90% of these people do the same old tricks and aren't all that hard to spot. It's the 10% that are smart enough to not use the "same old tricks" that you need to watch out for!

[padboy]

Honesty on a Resume

I live in Northern Michigan in an area which has a rather nice community college. At one time a few years back,the administrative department hired a "grant co-ordinator" who came into the job with top notch credentials. He claimed he was working on his PhD and would get it within a year after he was hired. Well the year passed and sure enuf he got it; however he claimed he got it during the summer from a large downstate university. This was his undoing, as it was a well-known fact that these degrees were never awarded during the summer session. This red flag finally caused a detailed background check and guess what? Yep, no PhD and no Masters either. He was summarily
fired but the irony of this whole situation was he did a great job for the college,bringing in substantial grant monies which was what he was hired to do.

[Alex Franke]

I'm guilty of spinning them, and even "dumbing down" my resume for when I wanted to get out of management and focus on family. I think people are influenced a lot by what they see or don't see when they're scanning a resume -- at least I always was. And I think you expect to see a lot of spin, too, because a lot of people see them as a tool for getting in the door.

The personal interviews are what really counts for me, though. And I always had them bring me code samples that I would review with them on the spot.

One of my most memorable interviews:
Me (referring to code sample): "Did you write all of this all by yourself, or did you have any help?"
Her: "All by myself."
Me: "Explain to me what this does, over here on page 12..."
Her: "Uh... Er... Um... I got that from a book."
Me: "Okay, how about this part on page 18?"
Her: "I think maybe I should go now..."

[Uncle Cracker]

I remember a couple of responses I got on resumes from the past.

Best response, male:

"Have you had prior experience dealing with the public?"

"Yes, I used to sell ice cream from a truck..."



Best response, female:

"Sex:"

"Yes, once in Miami..."


At least they were both giving straight answers...

[scorrpio]

Background check is one thing - but proficiencies are something else. In our company, HR does the checking part - but for R&D, we have programmers administer thorough technical interviews. These interviews tend to reveal a lot of truth. I suppose for cabinet shop, you could hand a guy two pieces of wood and tell him to dovetail them togeather.

[ironhat]

And you want to be my latex salesman...

So, *you* own Vandalay Industries! Who'd - a- tunk it!! LOL!

As for best responses to an interview...

Me: "So, tell me about your best assets that bring you here".

Interviewee: "Well, my car, of course, and a pretty nice stereo system. I'm gonna get a microwave pretty soon..."

You get the picture. We restructured the question.