Mud Slinging and...

[cabinetman]

Mud slinging and product bashing are two techniques to cause discredit and motivate a selection.

I see it all the time on TV and in media advertising and political campaigning where a brand or individual will either show or discuss a competitor and try to cast a bad image. I might understand the principle if there were safety or health reasons. I'm interested in the different views of members about this activity. Without getting into any political or religious discussion, place your vote and explain your feelings on the subject in why you voted the way you did. Your response may include your conception of this practice and how you might make decisions.

[Tequila]

I'm not a fan of it, and it usually doesn't affect my decision. There are times when mudslinging does bring up a point worth investigating, but I
ll check things out on my own rather than just believe what the slinger has to say.

The place where product bashing does have some credibility for me is at ratings sites like Amazon and epinions. If there's enough people out there that say "piece of junk - broke after 2 hours" then it might be enough to sway me away from buying a product, or at least to make me look a little closer before pulling out my wallet.

[Hoakie]

Ooops, too early, didn't mean to check I agree with it Should only be
"I don't like it" and "I don't trust those who do" I don't know if you can fix the poll or not.

Thanks

John

[cabinetman]

Ooops, too early, didn't mean to check I agree with it Should only be
"I don't like it" and "I don't trust those who do" I don't know if you can fix the poll or not.

Thanks

John

I don't think I can change the poll or would if I could. But, you can explain your "real" choices.

[Knottscott]

I'm in favor of posting details of a legitimate significant product or service issue, but don't particularly like an unspecific rant session (but I understand the frustration), and I definitely don't like broad based negative categorization of a brand or store...it's often emotionally motivated and factually misleading. Most of us tend to know very little about an entire lineup of products from a particular brand, and extrapolating isolated knowledge about a subset of the lineup doesn't always make for an accurate indication of the quality of the entire line. Also, forums lack the advantage of seeing body language, facial expressions, and voice influctions that often portray additional information than just the stated words, so I suspect much of what's intended in an emotionally charged statement gets misconstrued.

Publicly airing systemic issues like the Ridgid 3650's arbor problem was educational, useful, and actually prompted a solution through Ridgid. Corrosion on the Bosch magnesium housing, and the problems with the height raising mechanism on the Jet Supersaws are other legimate examples that help owners become aware of and resolve specific product problems. These are all respected manufactures of reasonable quality tools that are well suited for both home and professional use...it'd be ridiculous to pass up the entire Jet, Bosch, or Ridgid lineup b/c of isolated issues with one product.

HF and Sears are frequent targets of bashing. My experience with both have been hit or miss, but overall with some research under my belt, both have also provided me with some useful tools that were well priced and well suited for my needs. Sears sells a really wide range of tools...some are excellent, some are not, and nearly all are in a state of change and are different than what they were a few years ago. Some of the machines are extremely attractive on sale...the new line of "zipcode" hybrids from Orion have been very well received by mags and owners alike. The new Bosch made router is essentially a Bosch 1617 which is an excellent tool. The Rikon made line of bandsaws offers a good homeshop quality tool with lots of features at a reasonable price. The 22124 is very similar to the Steel City hybrid and there is an association between the two...Steel City is quickly gaining a reputation of good quality while Sears seems to retain alot of bashers who aren't informed on the recent tool lineup. I've done my fair share of Sears bashing over the years, but I've gotta give credit where credit is due.

HF doesn't offer much that's on par with General (Canada), MInimax, or SawStop either, but for a weekend hack on a tight budget, I can get decent clamps for dirt cheap, a functional mortiser for $100, a working basic compressor for $40, and a variety of other useful "occasional" tools that suit my need. I wouldn't want to make my living with them, but some are well worth the asking price. I've bought my fair share of junk there too but I blame me as much as them. With HF I consider the onus on me to examine the tool, the price, and the need before purchasing, plus their return policy is typically pretty generous so the risk isn't that high.


I'm not bothered at all when someone has been burned multiple times by a retailer or brand and shares their experience and expresses an opinion to never deal with a particular business again...that's understandable and I understand giving up on a business or brand when you've got other choices. That's different than erroneously saying everything they make or sell is junk, when that's not likely factual. I guess it's all in how it's phrased....negative info can be useful but the decision ultimately lies with the would be purchaser.

[Uncle Cracker]

I don't think it's very classy for users of a product or service, or their competition, to rip into 'em for sheer malice, but let's face it, sometimes they've got it coming. I'd like to think I'm intelligent enough to tell the difference between the useful info and the bullsh**.

[cgallery]

What Uncle Cracker said.

[Hellrazor]

Mud slinging on TV is useless and I ignore it.

Individuals expressing their displeasure with a product or service is a different story.

Lets ask this..

You find the perfect saw and everyone that owns one hates it. Do you:

A. Buy it anyway because it 'perfect'.
B. Move along because everyone hates it.
C. Buy it and wish you didn't?

For instance:
I absolutely hate craftsman power tools and gas equipment. I have had nothing but bad experiences with them over the past 8 years. Before that the stuff wasn't bad. I still have an older RAS and a 15 year old chainsaw I abused. Will I buy the hand tools? Maybe.. Most are decent. But I am not a typical weekend warrior either...

[cabinetman]

What really prompted this thread was TV commercials that show or mention the competitors item and bash it. I always think that this method of advertising is low class and of last resort. Tool reviews by a certain brand of another brand don't really make a difference to me. But when "X" company has an ad and holds up "Y" brand and bashes it, gets my goat every time.

[Uncle Cracker]

I, for one, have never bought anything because of a TV commercial. I have, however, decided not to buy things because I got tired of seeing that same commercial over and over again "ad infinitum" (<<<cheeky pun). Apparently, the advertising biz does not think people like me exist.

Does it seem odd to anyone that, if you pay for a subscription to satellite radio, there are no commercials, but a similar subscription to satellite TV does not offer the same respite?

[cwsmith]

I think to some degree it effects my decision. It certainly causes me to take a closer look. General "bashing" or "sour grapes" posts are rather obvious in that they offer little or no details that pin-point a problem. From experience, these types of bashings are usually from those who lost their temper or are whining because of something they did wrong and now expect service beyond the limits of the tool and/or the manufacturer.

Still, one needs to take these complaints into consideration and then do their homework before deciding to buy a particular tool, brand, or source.

If there was NO bashing, or we somehow prevented publicizing complaints, I think the consumer would be at a great loss. Certainly I'd like to know about any negatives before I lay out any hard-earned cash. Complaints may not always be valid, but it can be an indication of things to be aware of.

CWS

[steve-norrell]

. . . General "bashing" or "sour grapes" posts are rather obvious in that they offer little or no details that pin-point a problem. . . Still, one needs to take these complaints into consideration and then do their homework before deciding to buy a particular tool, brand, or source. . .

If there was NO bashing, or we somehow prevented publicizing complaints, I think the consumer would be at a great loss. Certainly I'd like to know about any negatives before I lay out any hard-earned cash. Complaints may not always be valid, but it can be an indication of things to be aware of.

CWS

Well said!

Those who take the time to document a problem do us all a service. Those who just complain, without offering details, do us a disservice. I don't know how often a review of a product on this forum has influenced my decision to buy or not, but it has been often. For that I am grateful.

Regards, Steve

[Knottscott]

What really prompted this thread was TV commercials that show or mention the competitors item and bash it. I always think that this method of advertising is low class and of last resort. Tool reviews by a certain brand of another brand don't really make a difference to me. But when "X" company has an ad and holds up "Y" brand and bashes it, gets my goat every time.

Well in that light....I still don't think bashing offers much in the way of objective information. I do however enjoy some of the commercials if they're humorous and subtle about who they're poking fun at.....I'm a fan of handcrafted microbrews and such, but I thought the Bud commercials about skunky beer were funny even though I'd never buy Bud if Heineken were available. I got a kick out of the Lowes commercials that subtly poked fun at HD's messy stores. The Pizza Hut commercials that poke fun at Dominos are mildy entertaining, but they don't influence me much. The car commercials that demonstrate their product as offering more than a higher priced alternative don't usually provide much entertainment or useful info.

[cabinetman]

Well in that light....I still don't think bashing offers much in the way of objective information. I do however enjoy some of the commercials if they're humorous and subtle about who they're poking fun at.....I'm a fan of handcrafted microbrews and such, but I thought the Bud commercials about skunky beer were funny even though I'd never buy Bud if Heineken were available. I got a kick out of the Lowes commercials that subtly poked fun at HD's messy stores. The Pizza Hut commercials that poke fun at Dominos are mildy entertaining, but they don't influence me much. The car commercials that demonstrate their product as offering more than a higher priced alternative don't usually provide much entertainment or useful info.

I agree with you, especially about the Heineken. Maybe the advertising theory plays on the remembering of the product by the way they compared the product, not by downplaying the product.

With all the auto insurance companies advertising that they'll save me $350.00 on my insurance, it's bewildering.

.

[Uncle Cracker]

With all the auto insurance companies advertising that they'll save me $350.00 on my insurance, it's bewildering.

Maybe if you call enough of them, you'll end up getting it for free...