How to Settle Contractor Dispute?

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  • RagerXS
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 501
    • Brookline, NH, USA.

    #1

    How to Settle Contractor Dispute?

    To make a long story short, we did an addition and a lot of things are left unfinished (insulation in floor above full basement, final grading of soil around foundation, exterior paint, door knobs for new doors, screens on windows, etc.). The builder expects to do final grading, install a gutter that is in the contract, and he wants full final payment.

    I want it all done, or I don't want him back. He says the contract doesn't list those things, but my take is that is part of the finished job just like the contract doesn't need to spell out to use construction adhesive between joists and sub-floor.

    He has threatened to place a lien against our home, but I'm not afraid to fight it and counter-sue. Though a friend of mine suggested I offer him arbitration. I may have an ace up my sleeve in that we've actually already paid him more than the amount in the contract, so should it boil down to just items explicitly listed, then the extra payment for additional excavation, sill replacement, etc. were never in the contract...

    What would you advise? Surely there are some of you here that have been on both sides of this kind of dispute. I called two friends of mine that are contractors and they said I'm being perfectly reasonable to expect all those things included because they are either required by code (insulation) or are considered part of the finished product.

    Regards,
    ~ Fred
  • Ed62
    The Full Monte
    • Oct 2006
    • 6021
    • NW Indiana
    • BT3K

    #2
    Everything should be in the contract. In the event the finished job does not meet code, I think you have a good case. If things are not listed in the contract, arbitration might do the trick for you, but the contractor might not accept arbitration. Otherwise, a lot of things like this wind up in the courts. The judge will only uphold the law, he doesn't write them. Check out the laws in your area to be sure you have good grounds for a case.

    Ed
    Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

    For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

    Comment

    • Hellrazor
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2003
      • 2091
      • Abyss, PA
      • Ridgid R4512

      #3
      1. Do not pay until all work is completed and you are happy with the result. 10% holdback is not out of the question.
      2. Define "paid him more than the amount in the contract". Changes or additions you made or issues he ran into and billed you?
      3. Contact whoever the permits are through and see if they can offer any good advice.
      4. Last resort: Get estimates to complete the job. Threaten to place a lien on his buisness for that amount. Two can play the same game.

      There are a number of ways to annoy them. A lawyer might be the best way. You can play other games but you will just land up annoying them.

      Comment

      • Jeffrey Schronce
        Veteran Member
        • Nov 2005
        • 3822
        • York, PA, USA.
        • 22124

        #4
        Not sure insulation under floor above basement would be considered standard.

        Final grading he has agreed to do.

        Exterior paint, you would need to further explain what you mean. Is it trim and doors or is it the entire addition (example you used some form of paintable siding).

        Basic builder grade door knob should be included.

        Screens on windows would be considered standard.

        The things you list above are not the same as defining that nails are included or adhesive is included. Most of those items are not included in standard trade, ie you would see them listed seperately in a contract.

        As others stated please advise why you have paid more than the contract amount. The fact that agreements were not in writing does not mean that they are not legally binding contractors. Verbal contracts are binding.

        Just read your last sentence. If insulation is required by code then it must be installed by the contractor without question.

        Comment

        • Ed62
          The Full Monte
          • Oct 2006
          • 6021
          • NW Indiana
          • BT3K

          #5
          [QUOTE=Jeffrey Schronce;267744] Verbal contracts are binding. QUOTE]
          But hard to prove unless you have witnesses.

          Ed
          Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

          For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

          Comment

          • RagerXS
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2003
            • 501
            • Brookline, NH, USA.

            #6
            Answers

            Items we paid for that weren't in the contract:
            - $250 for partial demo of existing deck where addition went (I started it but it snowed the weekend I planned to finish so he did it)
            - $2200 for excavation -- a few very large rocks were found and there was no clause for unexpected excavation work, but we felt that it was the stand-up thing to do for us to cover it, not screw him just because he failed to include a clause for it
            - $1200 for sill replacement when a section of the sill was found to have rot
            - $400 for light excavation after the recent storm -- we thought the foundation drain outlet was covered by the excavated dirt but it was found ~30 ft away and cleared out to alleviate the water in our cellar

            These amounts are greater than the final payment amount. We did have a verbal agreement for all of them prior to the work except the excavation payment, which we volunteered after the fact. But the same holds true for the exterior painting -- I distinctly recall the conversation where I told him I had taken on a lot of responsibility the last time we hired someone but did not have time for this job to do more than the electrical -- we wanted him to do everything else. We also discussed the fact that the paint was California but tinted to a Benjamin Moore color. My reasoning is it is either strictly what is in the contract (and the payments above could be deemed to count toward it) or verbal agreements count, in which case he is responsible for the exterior painting, etc.

            He says he is only responsible at this point for the following:
            - connecting the cold air return ducts
            - installing one run of a gutter with a down spout
            - trimming a new door he installed because it drags on the hardwood floor at near full open
            - final grading and hydroseed
            - reconnecting and charging our A/C unit

            I say he's responsible for all those things plus the following:
            - door knobs on the three new doors (french door pair plus one other)
            - repairing gouges in walls that were done by the carpet/hardwood flooring installer
            - touching up wall paint where he dripped polyurethane while sealing the pine ceiling
            - spreading loam (this is listed in the contract)
            - hauling away a pile of rubbish, and a pile of hay that was used to keep the frost off the foundation
            - screens for our windows
            - threshold between new floor and existing home (needed to pass inspection)
            - cheap stairs near slider (we agreed he was not responsible for any deck, but stairs are needed to pass code -- he may be able to get by with caution tape and blocking the door so it can't be used)

            Thanks for all the suggestions and comments so far...

            Regards,
            ~ Fred

            Comment

            • Jeffrey Schronce
              Veteran Member
              • Nov 2005
              • 3822
              • York, PA, USA.
              • 22124

              #7
              [quote=Ed62;267760]
              Originally posted by Jeffrey Schronce
              Verbal contracts are binding. QUOTE]
              But hard to prove unless you have witnesses.

              Ed
              Correct, but I am working upon the assumption that the OP is going to be truthful in conduct.

              Comment

              • Jeffrey Schronce
                Veteran Member
                • Nov 2005
                • 3822
                • York, PA, USA.
                • 22124

                #8
                Originally posted by RagerXS

                I say he's responsible for all those things plus the following:

                - door knobs on the three new doors (french door pair plus one other) HARDWARE AND FIXTURES ARE A TOSS UP IN A LOT OF CONTRACTS. IN NEW CONSTRUCTION THEY WILL GENERALLY GIVE AN ALLOWANCE AND YOU WILL CHOOSE YOUR STYLE. I CAN'T BELIEVE HE IS FIGHTING THIS, IT'S A $100 ITEM AT MOST.

                - repairing gouges in walls that were done by the carpet/hardwood flooring installer CLEARY, IF DONE BY HIS CONTRACTORS/SUB-CONTRACTORS HE IS RESPONSIBLE. IF YOU HIRED THE FOLKS WHO DID THE DAMAGE IT IS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY. WILL THESE REPAIRS REQUIRE REPAINTING OF ROOMS?

                - touching up wall paint where he dripped polyurethane while sealing the pine ceiling CLEARLY RESPONSIBLE. $100 ITEM.

                - spreading loam (this is listed in the contract) CONTRACT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

                - hauling away a pile of rubbish, and a pile of hay that was used to keep the frost off the foundation IF HE BROUGHT IT IN HE SHOULD CLEAN IT UP. REASONIBLE POST CONSTRUCTION CLEAN UP IS CONSIDERED PART OF CONTRACTOR COST AND COMPENSATED UNDER O&P. $250 ITEM.

                - screens for our windows I DON'T THINK HE OWES FOR THIS.

                - threshold between new floor and existing home (needed to pass inspection) I HAVE NO IDEA WHY HE IS FIGHTING THIS. STANDARD. $100 ITEM.

                - cheap stairs near slider (we agreed he was not responsible for any deck, but stairs are needed to pass code -- he may be able to get by with caution tape and blocking the door so it can't be used) ITS AMAZING HOW MANY LOCALITIES ALLOW BLOCKING THE DOOR EITHER ON THE EXTERIOR OR INTERIOR. I BET 40% OF NEW HOMES IN THIS AREA HAVE A SECOND FLOOR WITH FRENCH DOORS AND A SMALL RAIL ON THE OUTSIDE. $100 ITEM (BLOCKING IF ALLOWED) OR $300 (STEPS AND RAIL).
                THE EXTERIOR PAINTING ISSUE IS LIKELY YOUR BIGGEST COST.

                I OWN A CLAIMS ADJUSTMENT FIRM WITH 9 EMPLOYEES. I GET IN THESE FIGHTS WITH CONTRACTORS/HOMEOWNERS/INSURANCE COMPANIES EVERY DAY. IT IS SOOOOO MUCH FUN, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A TWO OR MORE PARTIES THAT ARE BEING DIFFICULT.

                IF YOU GIVE ME SPECIFICS ON THE ITEMS IN DISPUTE AND YOUR ZIP CODE I CAN GIVE YOU THE PRICES FOR MATERIAL AND LABOR. I WOULD SUBTRACT THOSE FROM THE TOTAL AMOUNT AGREED UPON (BOTH VERBAL AND WRITTEN) AND PAY HIM THE UNDISPUTED AMOUNT. ALWAYS LOOKS GOOD WHEN YOU HAVE PAID THE UNDISPUTED AMOUNT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU GO TO ARBITRATION.

                Thanks for all the suggestions and comments so far...

                Regards,
                ~ Fred
                MY REPLIES ARE ABOVE AFTER EACH ITEM.

                Comment

                • maxparot
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 1421
                  • Mesa, Arizona, USA.
                  • BT3100 w/ wide table kit

                  #9
                  First off you should never pay more up front than the cost of the materials or 50% of the total job cost whichever is greater. Second since as you said you've already paid the contracted amount you should not pay another cent until the job is completed to your satisfaction. That contract is a double edged sword so anything included in the contract that is not done is grounds for a complaint with the registrar of contractors, the BBB and small claims court. Since you already paid you have fulfilled your responsibility and no lien claim will hold up.
                  Opinions are like gas;
                  I don't mind hearing it, but keep it to yourself if it stinks.

                  Comment

                  • RagerXS
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 501
                    • Brookline, NH, USA.

                    #10
                    Jeffrey,

                    Thanks so much for your replies and your offer to help. My zipcode is 03033. Below is some additional info on the items in dispute:

                    -- The knobs we want are the simple, standard Schlage knob you can get at any hardware store in basic brass finish. Maybe $30 for the one door and for the french doors they would be just dummy knobs with no latch because he installed the style with a spring-set ball-bearing latch where the top of the door meets the jamb (though the latch plate still needs to be installed...). No real money involved here.

                    -- The wall damage was done by his subs/his crew. Some of it is marks that could be cleaned, some are gouges that need either plaster or spackling, and paint.

                    -- He had a rubbish trailer early on, but once it filled he never brought it back. Odd.

                    -- The screens came with the windows (they are Anderson 400 series low-e double-hung) and were here for the longest time. He put them in his truck when the flooring guy came, but never put them back inside. I don't think he'll fight this too much but I'm pretty sure he'll hold them back to use them to bargain with me.

                    -- worst case on the stairs I could throw some together and then come back and build a deck later on. It's just a matter of principle, especially considering the other items outstanding.

                    -- when the floor insulation was first mentioned it was when the building inspector pointed out that he wanted to see that along with a light and a smoke detector in the basement the next time he came (he hasn't been back for final inspection since then). I was responsible for all electrical for the job, and when the contractor stiffed me with the insulation I didn't fight it. I purchased the insulation and have 1/3 completed -- but now that I feel like he's trying to stiff me I want him to finish it because it is required by the building inspector. Any other customer would think he's nuts to ask them to do that, he's just taking advantage of me because I'm handy.

                    -- I agree that the paint is likely the largest expense item. The California Fresh Coat Velvet runs $27-30 per gallon and we need to cover a single story 20 x 26 addition with one gable end. His DIY cost is likely a lot lower than hiring a painter, but I just want it done.

                    -- The final payment was originally planned to be $4500, but a couple weeks back he said things were running tight and he didn't want to fund anything out of pocket, asking if I could make a $2500 payment. I did, so the only money I have held back at this point is $2000. With the amount so small (relative to the remaining items), I was expecting him to just walk away and stiff me when the the disagreement on finishing terms surfaced. Instead, he threatened to place a $10,000 lien against our home. I'm not sure if that was just a threat meant to scare me, or if he could actually win and recoup attorney's fees, etc.

                    We think he bid the job close and now that it ran long due to some winter weather setbacks along the way we think he has lost the passion for this job and just wants to move on. Spring is here and it is the busy season for his trade.

                    I hold two elected posts for our town and plan to see the building inspector in person first thing Monday morning. It's not like I'm someone important or anything like that, but sometimes just the fact that people consider you credible makes a tremendous difference.

                    ~ Fred

                    Comment

                    • Hellrazor
                      Veteran Member
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 2091
                      • Abyss, PA
                      • Ridgid R4512

                      #11
                      "- screens for our windows I DON'T THINK HE OWES FOR THIS."

                      Ordering windows without screens would be silly in residential construction. I order windows directly from the manufacturer and they assume you want atleast 1/2 screens. Sometimes they will ask "You did want the screens with this?" after they have it all keyed in. To me its like asking "Did you want handles?" when ordering a refrigerator.

                      Comment

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