Shingles? Ewww!

[bradley_osu]

You're right jeffrey, taking any of those antivirals at the onset of the disease decreases severity and duration.

Don't feel dirty, yea it's herpes... but it's also chicken pox.

Unless you're confused again, I hope no one believes them about capsacin doing all that you just described. Just goes to show don't trust everything you here, there's so much misinformation and even good information can be misinterpreted without a thorough understanding. It's just like with everything, diy has it's uses but as the stakes get higher it's better to leave it to the pros.

Oh and prednisone sounds slightly more appropriate, although steroids haven't really shown to be effective for shingles.

[Greg in Maryland]

FDA has determined that a shingles vaccine should be routine for folks over 60. Here is a short article on it: http://www.webmd.com/news/20061025/s...-routine-at-60

Bradley, here's another spot for your hard earned knowledge and wisdom to shine .... If someone already has had shingles, would the vaccine be of any benefit for avoiding it again in the future? If it wouldn't prevent another outbreak, would it minimize it?

Greg

[Stytooner]

Thanks for all the input guys.
LOML's home remedy actually helped pretty well. When I originally tried this last week, my results weren't as good. It's Band-Aid brand stuff that used to be called Rhuegel. It burns a little when applying it. This is just on healed skin. All the original outbreak was held to a small area because I went to the Doc so fast.
I like the idea of OTC remedies that actually work. It let me sleep well last night, which is something I hadn't done well in over a week.

I did talk with my Doctor about the immunity (vaccine) thing. He seems to think it's too new to really tell anything about it yet.
Forgive me for making fun of him earlier. He really is a good Doctor. I just wasn't in my right frame of mind.
I feel like a new guy today. Hopefully this stuff will be history soon.
I will say that this has been a learning experience and Ewww is absolutely a proper description of the whole illness.

[whitecobra]

Greg
I am unaware of any results for people with existing shingles history
I am also not sold on the idea of the vaccine for all seniors. YES the disease can wreak havoc on a senior especially with a compromised immune system I am not sold on how well the vaccine will work

Glad to hear some potion has worked for Lee although I have never heard of this Band Aid stuff if it helps use it

There is an over the counter product called CM System 2 out of some place here in Florida that has worked VERY well

It relieves the pain BUT not the duration. I guess if someone is pain reduced they can tolerate it for a longer duration of time.

Dr Dave

[bradley_osu]

I have to agree with Dave on this one, there is no data on administering it after you've had an outbreak. Furthermore, the data shows that it is fairly effective in patients under 60 but over 60 showed similar outbreak rates as those administered placebo. So talk to your doctor see what he thinks.

[broschultz]

I had a bad case about 5 years ago. the Dr. told me it would affect my eye as the rash was down to the eyelid. He gave me a prescription and as I remember, it took about 10 days for substantial recovery. My eye hasn't been affected seriously other than occasionally watering. I got it during a rather stressful time in my life when I was about 59. Take the prescribed meds and hang in there. It too shall pass.

[Kristofor]

Maybe I'm dense, or only heard the preschool version of how a vaccine works, but as there are a couple medical types following this thread I'll ask anyhow.

Doesn't a vaccine just expose your body to some antigen from a pathogen so that your own immune system can fight it off if it sees it again later?

Isn't shingles caused by the same virus as Chicken Pox, but only after you've already had Chicken Pox?

And isn't it possible to have shingles a whole bunch of times?

If my questions above are true, how does the vaccine work in a different manner than being exposed to the actual virus and why wouldn't exposure to that virus give the same benefits?

Thanks!

[whitecobra]

Kris
Vaccines work in different modes
Some work by exposing your "virgin body" to a NON pathogenic version of a disease organism. This exposure gets the body into action so that IF you get it exposed to the pathogenic version it knows how to fight it before the body is damaged (current version of Hep vaccine uses this)

The second way a vaccine works is by teaching the body how to react to a SIMILAR insult over and over again but the insult IS the actual disease only in "minor form" so that when you are exposed the body can react. The original Hep vaccine (that is no longer sold) worked that way. It simply created a process over months of exposure that allowed the body the ability to react quickly to an actual insult

With Herpes the virus is NEVER gone. Once you have Varicella you own it for life. It lives on the nerve root and remains there until it is activated and comes out at either lip or similar sores or as shingles

The viruses live on particular nerve roots therefore you will hear people getting it along a similar nerve "trunk" or ganglion over their life. If you get it on the scalp an eye you will continue to get it there

Rarely do you get it on the scalp then say on the foot sole. There are far more outbreaks of it orally in the form of "cold sores" then there are as shingles.

Yes it is the same disease CAUSATIVE as Chicken Pox but one is the primary and one the secondary outbreak. Chicken pox is when you GET it shingles is when you already OWN it

The vaccine is designed for initial outbreaks and I am NOT sure the mode of action. (although I can look into it if need be but so can you all see Google search for "mode of action Shingles vaccine")

Dr D

[Kristofor]

see Google search for "mode of action Shingles vaccine"

Dr D

"Live varicella vaccine polarizes the mucosal adjuvant action of cholera toxin or its B subunit on specific Th1-type helper T cells with a single nasal coadministration in mice" Well, that clears it up.

I recognize all of the words, but they don't make sense when combined, and I was concerned about the fact that they were talking about both varicella and cholera so this may have been about something else entirely.

Anyhow, In reading the first 30 hits I didn't find a concise definition of the Mode of Action for the Shingle vaccine. However, I did find references to the study mentioned earlier where they showed capsaicin provided improvement in postherpetic neuralgia and reduced the incidence of PHN if applied during the shingles phase.

I also found reference to the vaccine as being comprised of a live but weak dose of the virus. So I'm going to assume that our immune system is either blind or too dumb to "see" the virus that is already hiding in our nerves and doesn't have the opportunity to "learn" from those native virus particles except during an active shingles outbreak?

I managed to avoid the chicken pox until high school, but then I was just totally covered from head to toe and miserable. I hope that doesn't correlate to likelihood of contracting shingles later in life

[whitecobra]

Ok so that tells us what we need to know

In ENGLISH it means that they are using attenuated but live virus to get the body used to reacting to the insult in case it gets ones

With that in mind it is NOT unreasonble to get a mild case of the disease when given the vaccine (NOT a good thing if you are old and immune compromised)

Dr D

[Stytooner]

Thanks again, Guys.
I think that may be the reason my Doc isn't all for doleing out the vaccine. There was a flyer on his wall at reception stating to ask your Doctor about the new vaccine. His comment was mainly derogatory to the drug reps that put the flyer there in the first place.
So far from what I have learned about it is this.
The only requirement for getting shingles is that you had to have had chicken pox in the past.
You can get shingles at any age, but at age 50, the incidence of outbreak occur in about 1 in 10. This increases as you age from that point on. Having shingles once doesn't mean that you will or will not get them again.
Some things that can effect your health can also open the door for an outbreak.
Not eating right, high stress levels, a weakened immune system due to other illnesses like flu, sinuses, ear infections.
I don't think I was under a lot of stress, but I haven't been eating properly and I ran out if vitamins without replenishment or several weeks.
Those things are fixed now.
My Doctor was worried that it may effect my eye. I had the rash on my left eyebrow, forehead and some in my scalp.
He asked me if the tip of my nose felt affected. I replied "No." He referred me to an eye doctor and he asked the same thing. He then said it probably won't effect your eye then, but did all the tests anyway. Nothing in my eye.
I now know what to look for as well, so if it does happen again, perhaps I can head it off a little quicker the next time.
The key to not getting shingles is never getting chicken pox in the first place.

[whitecobra]

Lee
Do NOT screw around with ocular herpes
My MIL lost her vision in both eyes due to an outbreak of ocular Herpes
She had 3 transplants and ALL were attacked by the virus
Before her death we had to have the nerves chemically burned to stop the pain
Ocular Herpes is probably the worst place you can get it
I have seen some head and neck outbreaks that I had to hospitalize the Pt for but the ocular ones I have a simple cure for them
REFER TO OPTHO!!!!!!

Dr D