Dealing w/ a contractor

[cgallery]

I am having a bathroom done. The contractor has 30+ years in doing this type of work. I got his name from a old-time union carpenter that has helped me on projects and who I trusted. I'm paying about $15,000 for the work. Not as much as some people put into bathrooms, but it is a pretty simple job. I'm not moving walls and I went with a pretty inexpensive tub/toilet, etc.

The contractor mis-ordered the vanity. Here are the problems:

(1) Vanity is 21" deep instead of 18"

(2) There is a divider from front to back that is centered in the vanity. On the left side is a cabinet door. On the right side there are three drawers. The divider supports the drawer slides on one side. Due to the positioning of this divider, the sink bowl and drain will run right into it.

(3) The cold-water pipe comes into the cabinet on the right-hand side of divider (behind the drawers).

The contractor proposed doing the following:

(1) Return cabinet to custom shop that made it. They will take it apart and cut depth down to 18" and reduce depth of drawers.

(2) The installer will "scoop" out part of the divider for the sink bowl, and then cut a section of the divider out to accomodate the drain pipe.

(3) The cold water pipe will be left angled behind the drawers and run into the cabinet part (behind the door), then have a shut-off attached.

I know that I'm not explaining this great. But there is a lot wrong with the vanity. The contractor doesn't want to eat the cost of the vanity. I'm insisting that there are just too many compromises. We're both pretty PO'd at each other right now.

I asked him if he has ever, in his thirty years, had to remove material to install a drain before and he said no. I don't know why I'd let him start now.

I think I'm on solid ground insisting on a new vanity. I mean, this is only the stuff he is admitting to having to do to make it work. I know he'd have to make one of the drawers quite a bit more shallow than the others to accomodate the cold water pipe running behind it.

And what if I have to have the trap cleaned out. I don't want to find out later on that the top of the vanity has to come off to get at the drain.

Argh!!!

[cgallery]

Here is a pic of the stupid vanity.

[Thalermade]

Will you ever be happy with the compromise?

I would stand your ground and wait for the correct vanity.

Gotta be frustrating. Hope it works out for the best.

Russ

[cgallery]

Will you ever be happy with the compromise?

I would stand your ground and wait for the correct vanity.

Gotta be frustrating. Hope it works out for the best.

Russ

This project has not gone well. The accent tile color isn't even close to the field tile color. He said he noticed that but went ahead anyhow. I work three blocks from home and coula come home and told him to leave 'em out.

The medicine cabinet is the wrong size, too. It just falls into the rough opening. Sure, the rough opening can be made smaller.

And the mirror on the medicine cabinet is very small and I told him it was going to be with an inset door and that we needed to talk about it but he told me it would be fine. First thing he says when he sees the medicine cabinet is "look how small the mirror is."

So I'm having some very un-Christian thoughts about him at this time.

Thanks for the kind words,
Phil

[Warren]

This is what lawyers are for. Tell him to do it as he agreed to, or sic one of the denizens of the court on him and go for damages also. Do you have a contract or a handshake? It he bonded? Put the screws to him as he is trying to do to you.

Just sic a lawyer on him and stand your ground. And, whenever he calls, refer him to your shyster. I won't tolerate such slipshod behavior and neither should you.

I would think you would make a few thousands profit on the remodel, the shyster will smile all the way to the bank, and the contractor will rethink his style of doing business as he writes the checks to cover the increase in bonding costs.

[cabinetman]

From what you said, sounds like there wasn't planning on the majority of the job. I would first like to address your attitude towards him. If you use the lawyer thing, most likely it will get to a push and shove. If he resists the threats and continues with his course, it could take you a long time to resolve the issues.

If there is a way to nicely handle the problems, it would benefit you in the long run.

So, for an immediate fix, the problems aren't your fault. If he used a "custom" shop, they should have come to your house and taken their own measurements and noted the conditions which would affect their work. From looking at the picture, it doesn't seem possible that happened.

In resolving the problem with the cabinet, to modify the drawers by taking them apart and changing the size will not be prudent to install the cabinet as a "made to fit". There are times that some cutting and trimming is necessary, but this case is a clear indication that proper measurements were not taken.

The usual procedure for this type of remodel is that the GC has his cabinet guy do the measurements, then the cabinet guy does his drawings and includes all the details, colors, finishes, hardware types, drawer construction, and anything else involved with the work, and submits them for approval. The GC should get you to sign off on them.

Those drawings become part of your "contract documents". They exist as the main plan for what is needed and approved.

For whatever reason the cabinet is wrong, ask the GC how that happened. If the repairs are too extensive or you feel the modifications will yield a less than satisfactory product, don't settle for that. That isn't what you're paying for.



A THING OF BEAUTY IS A JOY FOREVER - John Keats

[cgallery]

Thanks Cabinetman. I think I will call the cabinet shop tomorrow and have them send someone out to take some measurements.

[maxparot]

Bottom line the mistakes are his he needs to eat it.
Tell him you are not willing to compromise on this being done properly. He needs to be responsible for his mistakes.(that is why we hire pros) If he is unwilling to do the job the way he contracted to do it then you are entitled to a full refund. You can threaten to report him to BBB and registra of contractors for your state in addition to being able to take legal action.

This happened to me 2 years ago with 2 different contractors on the same job. First one gives a free ballpark estimate has you retain him and contract for a design before giving a firm estimate. Then the firm estimate is 33% higher than the ballpark. (I got the retainer back)

Second contractor starts demoing out the bathroom and then mentions the doors he ordered for the job are white instead of matching the rest of the doors in the home. (not what was discussed) he tries to make me pay an extra $75 for each of 2 doors which I told him he'd have to eat. He refused and lost a $15k contract over $150. After we served each other with legal notice he paid me back $7500 within 1 month and had no recourse for the work he did.

[Ed62]

Unless there is something we're not aware of, it sounds like you're paying the man to do a job, and it doesn't even come close to satisfying you. Hopefully, you have a contract with everything spelled out. If you do, it shouldn't be too hard to get some satisfaction. But I agree with Cabinetman. The legal part should be left out unless there is no other alternative. Bottom line is that you're paying someone to do a job for you, and since you're paying, the job should be done to your satisfaction, per the contract. If you have to go to court, the contractor will lose, even if he wins in court. At the least, it will cost him time (that's money), and probably put a black mark on his reputation.

Ed

[JSCOOK]

Stand your ground and insist that he won't get fully paid until the job is done to your satisfaction and properly ... not sure about regulations in your area, but it's not uncommon to withhold a percentage of the job until it's properly completed ...

I recently went thru this with a high-end patio sliding door that a reputable local company took shortcuts installing due to the installers being cold on the day of the install ... they had to come back, take the entire flashing, door, and some framing out to reinstall it properly ... needless to say they lost $$$ on my install, reputation, as well as any future business

[Warren]

I'm sorry, I've got to restate my position. You're wasting your time dealing with him. Fire him, sue him, turn it over to your lawyer and engage a new contractor. It's clean, simple and you won't have to deal with him any further or have any further heartburn.

If he tries to placate you, get an injunction to keep him away. You're attorney will recover, in fact he'll probably jump for the case on spec, his fees in the settlement The contractor has already established that he is unreliable and not trustworthy. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want you to keep dealing with this putz. Fire his ornery butt and hire someone more tuned to doing what the customer wants. Make him your attorney's problem, not yours. Life is too short to deal with incompetence. You don't need the stress.

[gabedad]

I'm sorry, I've got to restate my position. You're wasting your time dealing with him. Fire him, sue him, turn it over to your lawyer and engage a new contractor. It's clean, simple and you won't have to deal with him any further or have any further heartburn.

If he tries to placate you, get an injunction to keep him away. You're attorney will recover, in fact he'll probably jump for the case on spec, his fees in the settlement The contractor has already established that he is unreliable and not trustworthy. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want you to keep dealing with this putz. Fire his ornery butt and hire someone more tuned to doing what the customer wants. Make him your attorney's problem, not yours. Life is too short to deal with incompetence. You don't need the stress.

I Just went through this in my bathroom. I hired a contractor. he did about 3/4 of the job and then would show up when he felt like. After 60 days into a 30 day contract, I had a lawyer send him a letter saying his services were no longer needed, and that we were not paying him any more money. The lawyer also included in the letter that we were going to hire another person to finish the job and if the fees were over the amount owed to the first contractor -we were going to sue him for that money.

We did not hear directly from him again.

If he has pulled permits - do no let him remove his name from the permit till final inspections are over either. He is responsible. If you hire someone else- make sure that they agree to take over permit - if they the the prior work is up to par. Talk to your town's building dept.

We did change our locks too- you never know.

Good luck.

[Stytooner]

I worked in custom cabinets for quite a while. Long enough to know that these weren't custom cabinets. Cabinetman is right. If it's a custom cabinet job of any size, the cabinet man will be there to measure and then later design for approval. The cabinet he is trying to use may indeed be one from a custom cab shop, but it's apparent that he either got a deal on it or he has already eatten this because it was built wrong for another job and is passing on the shafting to you.
There are many ways to design cabinets and allow for special piping and electrical limitations. You are basically getting charged custom prices for apparently a now off the shelf cabinet that will need to be modified.
Personally, I might do the same thing myself in my home were I to find a great deal on an existing unit. You can bet your sweet potatoes that great deal would not be custom cabinet build and installation costs.
Ask him which cabinet shop built this.
Bottom line is this cabinet is not suited for the job and will need to be severely altered to fit the application. It is the responsibility of the contractor to see that these are designed right and he obviously failed. It should be his dime that produces a completed functional unit in the space as initially agreed on.

[jseklund]

I don't think you need anymore advice on this....but here's my $.02

Talk to a lawyer, find a new contractor. I hate going the lawyer route, because I know in the end usually no one wins except the lawyer. If you have a contract for custom cabinets, and he is not performing- then you should get your money back. Hopefully you will get what you SHOULD get.

The evidence seems to be:

1. Contract for custom cabinets. The cabinets do not fit, he never had you sign off on any custom plans, etc.

2. Pictures of cabinets not fitting, drain not fitting, etc. (clearly not what you paid for)

3. Tile not matching (hopefully you have proof that you asked for something else).

4. I'm sure there's more....

My only concern is that if you have no "custom plans" that you signed off on, then there is little "proof" of what you paid for- and it becomes gray area. He says, you say, who's right? Find all the proof of what you paid for that you can, and all the proof that this isn't it. It doesn't seem like it will be hard to find the "this isn't it part".

Did you pay him the full $15,000 yet? Half, a quarter?

Good luck. I hope it works out.

[rbfunk]

The contractor mis-ordered the vanity. Here are the problems:

Argh!!!

There's the whole problem. Unfortunatly the contractor will have to eat the cost of the cabinet. He is trying to aleviate the problem with the compromise but remember, he's leaving soon and you will be living with it a long time.
I suggest that before you start thinking of lawyers and reporting him that you sit down with him or write a letter, calmly explaining your posistion, i.e. custom work, and let him know that you really wish to resolve the problem. Hopefully that will help. ( I wouldn't give any thing back but he is going to ask for something)
You may get threatened with a mechcanics lien. IANAL but I don't think he can just slap a lien on you if your contract states that you are not responsible for measuring or ordering the cabinets.
Bob