Remodeling Nightmares?

[cabinetman]

When you just buy a house that is over 50 years old, repairs are no surprise. Besides the age of the house, it was unoccupied for over 2 years. We've been here about 7 years with no real regrets (the price was right). The first time one of the showers was turned on insects indigenous to the Congo came out the drain like a Hitchcock movie. Never saw my wife move that fast. That same night the toilet decided to disintegrate into small pieces when flushed. The same week, the sink faucet broke off at the base. So needless to say that bathroom was the first remodeling project.

A test of our patience was to remove paneling that was liguid nailed on stucco walls. Got the paneling off eventually, but let me tell ya that dried liguid nails in clumps is meant to last beyond forever.

Our current remodel is our area going to sewer from septic tank. They aren't done with the street yet, but supposed to be in 2007. Until then I'm glad I have 4 wheel drive.

We are in the process of changing our roof design on the front half of the house from flat deck to a pitched roof. It's still with the architect, and isn't a nightmare yet. But I'm not holding my breath.

Some of the work we did ourselves was the kitchen cabinets (of course), tile floors in most of the house, changing out 20 windows (got 4 to do this weekend, then 8 to go), re-do ceilings from acoustic tile to wood, build shed, and paint, lots of paint.

I'll bet we have some great nightmares to hear about.



"I'M NEVER WRONG- BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[BigguyZ]

I have an older house with plaster walls. The stuff seems to disintergrate anytime I do any type of project where we cut into them- like adding an outlet/ switch.

[crokett]

cabinetman, not sure where you are but it is a bit warmer if you replace windows in the spring time

bigguy - what do you use to cut into them? I grew up in a house with plaster/lathe walls. The rooms that were in the worst shape we knocked the plaster off and put up sheetrock. The others a diamond blade or simliar in an angle grinder worked best.

[germdoc]

My wife, who's a realtor, showed me a house she's selling for ~$60,000--old brick sort-of Victorian, 3 bedrooms upstairs. The previous tenants trashed the place. It was a mess--mouse droppings all over the place, carpets soiled fom pet droppings, broken windows, etc. She said it was close to being condemned.



I had a HALF-THOUGHT to buy it and rehab it, as I don't currently "own" a home. It COULD be a nice house. On the other hand, thinking of all the work and potential pitfalls (roof, plumbing, heating, electrical) makes me nervous. Talk me out of it, guys.

[BigguyZ]

bigguy - what do you use to cut into them? I grew up in a house with plaster/lathe walls. The rooms that were in the worst shape we knocked the plaster off and put up sheetrock. The others a diamond blade or simliar in an angle grinder worked best.

I typically use Dremel rotory blades to cut through. But, the bits get dull quickly. I've also tried using a jigsaw, but the problem is it seperates the lath from the plaster and then hits against the plaster making it crumble. Also, I've had parts where it crumbled just from the touch.

[crokett]

. Talk me out of it, guys.

Can you afford to carry a mortgage+ your rent? Are you willing to give up your life for the next year or so?

What's the neighborhood like? Is it a trashed house in a generally nice place or is the neighborhood a dump? Assuming the house was in good shape what would it sell for? How much would it cost to rehab (if a contractor did it)? How much of it is cosmetic? I mean, does the roof need replacing or are rafters or trusses rotted? Is it structurally sound? I woud hire a GOOD inspector - your wife would know several - and have him look at it. Does it have its own well and septic? If either of those is bad, run away.

[germdoc]

Can you afford to carry a mortgage+ your rent? Are you willing to give up your life for the next year or so?

What's the neighborhood like? Is it a trashed house in a generally nice place or is the neighborhood a dump? Assuming the house was in good shape what would it sell for? How much would it cost to rehab (if a contractor did it)? How much of it is cosmetic? I mean, does the roof need replacing or are rafters or trusses rotted? Is it structurally sound? I woud hire a GOOD inspector - your wife would know several - and have him look at it. Does it have its own well and septic? If either of those is bad, run away.

For a guy from North Carolina, you sure ask a lot of questions!

Yes. No. Middle class, most homes in decent shape. Well over $100,000 if rehabbed. Don't know about roof, trusses, etc. Foundation OK, some water seepage in basement. Don't know about well--has city sewer.

I'm starting to run...

Seriously, biggest issue is time. I wouldn't mind working on a partial fixer-upper I was living in or gonna live in, i.e., redo kitchen or bath, but I'm not crazy about gutting and rehabbing a whole house, even if I have contractors do a lot of the basic work.

[scorrpio]

We are currently remodeling a room in the house we bought a year and a half ago. It was a small bedroom adjoining the kitchen, and the plan is to open a wall and make it a dinette. The room is all lath/plaster. And it began to crumble - both ceiling and walls. Previous owner found nothing better than:
1. glue and nail some hardboard paneling over the walls.
2. install a drop ceiling under the crumbling plaster ceiling, cutting room height by almost a foot.
3. cover BEAUTIFUL cherry hardwood floor with an ugly wall-to-wall carpet.
4. paint walls, baseboards, and all window trim a ghastly bright blue.

We already stripped the ceiling to joists, and doing same to walls now. For stripping plaster, I would be hard-pressed to find anything better than a nice corded sawzall with a demolition blade. This thing goes through plaster, lath, nails, whatever. I like 'The Axe' blade by Milwaukee. Goggles, earmuffs, respirator and gloves are a must.

[crokett]

For a guy from North Carolina, you sure ask a lot of questions!

Just helping you make up your mind.

Seriously, biggest issue is time.

Well then there's your big decision point. Description of the house sounds like it is worth at least getting an inspector in to make sure it isn't falling down.

[Ed62]

We bought a fixer-upper twice. The first one was the one we've lived in for over 15 years now. Good neighborhood, mostly well kept homes. We did a lot of work (all ourselves), including a 16X27 foot addition. Bought it right, and it's now worth about 4 times what we paid.

The second one was more of a fixer-upper than we dreamed of. Didn't lose money, but if we didn't have sons who knew what they were doing (one is an electrician, thank God! Another a home remodeling contractor), we very well could have. The electrical service was home wired by an idiot. The bad part is that I didn't have my son check it over before we bought. Did you ever hear of a light that ran directly to two different fuses? That's just the start of it.

Bottom line is if the house doesn't take too much, and is in a good neighborhood at a good price, it's worth taking it on if you can. Just be sure to have the big things like foundation, etc. checked out by a qualified professional.

Ed

[TheRic]

Germdoc: I know one person who buys older homes, moves in for a couple of years. Does a lot of cosmetic fixes: Paint, carpet, new fixtures, etc. sells for nice profit, roles that into next place.

I know someone else who buys rundown places, fixes them up and sells them for nice profit. He makes his living doing this, has a nice house he lives in.

I know another guy who buys rundown places, has someone else do most of the work in fixing them up, then rents them out. He mostly deals in multiple dwellings, or turns the houses into multiple dwellings.

Hey our village is less than 3000 people so yea I know about everyone. I have thought about doing something along these line but I don't have the time. Much of it is tired up doing community service, no I'm not court ordered, I just enjoy helping other people.

You might want to consider buying the place, doing a quick fix, then move in. You could fix the place up at a more leisure time, say over a couple of years. Then sell it for a profit. I'm sure your wife knows what fixes will bring the most bang for the buck. Your rent might not be much more then the mortgage.

Oh you said talk you out of it......Never mind!

[vaking]

Cabinetman,
I noticed the part about replacing windows yourself and it got me interested. I have a house where this might be needed - I am not sure. Can you tell me more please?
What is involved? How much is to buy windows vs have it installed (does it pay to do yourself)? When does it pay to replace windows at all? I have heard some talk that the gain on the heating bill from new windows might not be as big as people think. Obviously I have not yet studied this question closely.
Thanks,

[cabinetman]

Cabinetman,
I noticed the part about replacing windows yourself and it got me interested. I have a house where this might be needed - I am not sure. Can you tell me more please?
What is involved? How much is to buy windows vs have it installed (does it pay to do yourself)? When does it pay to replace windows at all? I have heard some talk that the gain on the heating bill from new windows might not be as big as people think. Obviously I have not yet studied this question closely.
Thanks,

Alex

The windows on the house were original windows, some being awning and some being jalousie. The awning weren't closing tight and jalousie leaks by design. The type of windows now being sold (or approved) in South Florida have to be hurricane rated, and new installations have to have shutters if not they have to be the "hurricane proof" type, special glass, or polycarbonate. We bought the double pane, low "E", and argon gas filled, single hung.

The cost of having it done is about the cost of the windows. So, if you get 'em at HD then figure double the cost for installation or pretty close to that. As for type of window, it depends on the type of opening you have. Your structure could be all wood frame, logs, concrete block, brick, etc. But basically it's pretty easy. Our openings were block, with a 3/4" PT strip of wood around the opening attached to the block. The stop per se is called the "buck". So my measurements "buck" to "buck" were in between them, and the windows had a flange that lays on the front edge of that wood. I caulked behind the flange, pressed window in tight and then screwed into the block through the frame of the window. Of course, make sure it's level and plum. Then on the outside, morter in around the edge of the flange. Our sills were tile that I changed to marble. Some were the stop like the "buck" and some butted to the window on the inside.

Getting the old windows out is no real trick. They come out from the outside, and at first I used a hammer and cold chisel, until I went to a impact hammer with chisel, and it went fast, with less damage than just a hammer and chisel. My fastest window was about 10 minutes out and 10 minutes in (for jalousie in wood frame) and about 20-30 minutes for a out-in, mortar. I would say it takes very little mechanical ability and is mostly common sense. I would recommend doing it yourself, unless you are so loaded it doesn't matter. And in doing it yourself, would have a better grasp on having it done right, or at least knowing how it was done.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[BigguyZ]

Germdoc- my brother and I have a realestate investment company on the side. Your position is the best one to have if you wanted to make an offer on the house. What you do is you get an inspector to see the house for $200 or so. Have him find everything that would need immeadiate repair/ replacement, and what will eventually need repair/ replacement. Then, write an offer to the seller for much less than what they are asking for. If there's $20,000 worth of work to do between the miminal issues, then make an offer for $40,000 or so. In your letter, include everything that needs to be fixed and it's cost. That way you can tell them that you want the house, but you have to be realistic about it. That's how you get the house for a wholesale cost. Now, this might not work if the house hasn't been on the market for long. But the longer it is, the more likely they'll move on their price. It'll end up in the middle, but it'll be less the list price.

The best part is if they say no you aren't emotianally invested in the property and if they yes you get a heck of a deal. Even if they say NO, you can walk away and let them know to call you if they change their minds. If it doesn't sell, they may indeed decide to deal.

Just my thoughts, from my personal experience.

[drunkcat]

bigguy-
In my experience the best tool for cutting plaster is a cordless drill fitted wtih a masonry bit (I usually use 5/16). Just drill consecutive holes and then go back and connect the holes with more holes or a stiff puddy knife. Its not perfect, but works better than anything else I'v tried.