**Craftsman Owners 'Fess Up**

[L. D. Jeffries]

Craftsman Rant

Don't usually rant on "baaad" tools, but since there is an invite--here goes. Bad first: First router I ever bought was a Craftsman. Can't remember the year but must have been at least 10 years ago. What a piece of s**t! Had a plastic body that had to be twisted around to set the height of the router plate/bit. Secured with a nut in a square plastic setting. Of course he first thing that went was the method to secure the height. Last year bought a Craftsman combo set; drill and panel saw, battery powered. Another real "winner"! Neither would run more than 5 minutes, if that, on a full battery charge. Panel saw would never turn up enough rev's to cut a 1 x 6 x 3/4 pine board. Gave the drill with batteries and charger to a young friend of mine (7 yrs old) as he was keen to have a "power" tool. The saw sits in a cupboard under my bench; with the idea that I might try to rig up a transformer to deliver the right voltage to the saw and make it a "corded" tool. Good Part: Have a Craftsman 12" band saw that works like a champ! No gripes there..fair price and cuts well..80" blades are not too costly. So there is my rant!

[linear]

I bought a tool bag on sale last year--nice little bag....

I nabbed 2 of those bags! They rock.

I have the Jointer made by Orion that came up on the hot clearance deal recently. It is excellent.

I have a 12" bandsaw I got used, it's okay, but I got it so cheap I have zero complaint--I'll be able to recoup my investment readily when I outgrow it.

[LinuxRandal]

I buy virtually all my mechanic's tools at Sears. Never owned any Snap-On or MAC stuff but I cannot imagine it would be sufficiently better than Craftsman that a home wrench could justify the price difference.

As others have mentioned, it's hard to apply a general [ATTACH]2733[/ATTACH] or [ATTACH]2734[/ATTACH] to Craftsman tools, since they are made by several different companies.

Larry, I worked as a wrench for our family mechanic for a few years. Snap and Mac make GREAT specialty tools, WHEN they make them (verses rebranding, just like Craftsman does with their power tools). I bought Craftsman as the standard, filled in with the specialty and upgraded my ratchets (Craftsman's basic aren't the ones to have, they do have MUCH better ones, and I also have some Snaps of both regular and specialty). Snap is convienent, IF: your stupid enough to finance, you get a decent driver (we went through several that weren't), you can get them to HONOR their warranty (we can't get the other routes driver to be able to drive ACROSS the street, to provide Snaps warranty). SO your right, but even professionally I think they still beat Snap/Mac for value overall.

mschrank, your right on about hard to judge, SINCE they are just rebranders. Though there are times I have found they were not the best value, against the one that made the tool. I really think people refer to it as they do, because the overall quality has gone down in manufacturing over the years, AND we get spoiled by the hand tool warranty.

As for what I have with power tools, I have an old 14.4 drill/circular saw set (gift), with NO quick charger and no real power. My old Makita 9.6v have more power. However, I used two friends CMS's and was really impressed. Why the weight has come down (WAY WAY), the features have Dramatically improved.
But, no matter the tools, I have a friend who had one of those old circular saw tables, that converted it to a table saw. He has more ability to make classic stuff, with that, then I do with my shop. Some people just have the skills, others try to aquire.

[tedkitch]

I have to say that I really like Craftsman

Up until about 5 years ago I still had my grandfather's Craftsman JigSaw and Belt Sander. They worked great! Loud as all get out, but they always worked. They had to be at least 20 years old as I remember using them when I was around 10. I gave them to a neighbor that didn't have any power tools. I've since moved, so I don't know if they are still going. As far as the wrenches and stuff, I think they are great. I have a set of sockets and wrenches that were purchased in the late sixties by my grandfather. One of the sockets cracked on me and just to see what happened, I took it to Sears. Walked out with a new laser etched socket for no charge. Currently I have the Craftsman Digital Plunge Router (haven't used it yet) and thier laser tape measure (totally awesome) and a ton of thier specialty and automotive tools. All good stuff, there is crap out there, but if you look at how it is constructed you can usually separate the wheat from the chaff in the store. I have a ton of B&D tools (gifts from my father) and a ton of Ryobi tools that I've purchased myself. I usually search the Internet for reviews of things that I want to purchase and then get what seems to be the best tool for what I want to spend. This is what led me to this group and I purchased a BT3100 based on what I read. I've also purchased lots of stuff from HF. It is really hit or miss, but sometimes you get a real bargin.

[Knottscott]

My first circ saw was a Craftsman given as a gift in 1986 when we bought our 2nd house...it's heavy, strong, and still cranking after two decks, two swing sets, and everything in between. I'd rather get a sleak new one but this one won't quit!

My first router was a small 9 amp Craftsman....I didn't know any better, but that darn thing works great and is still going strong after 5 years. It's got a light, collet lock, handle trigger, and on board wrench storage...wish my "good" routers had those features! It was ~ $40!

I hate my crapsman CMS...sloppy, loud, and heavy...and unfortunately, still working. Coulda, woulda, shoulda bought something else for the same price.

My 22124 was an "informed" purchase made after I knew better....it replaced an excellent tricked out GI contractor saw, and I took alot of grief about it. 18 months later it appears to have been a great move...love the saw...it was definitely an upgrade from an already good saw. It includes any mod I'd ever want to do to a contractor saw. It's heavy, quiet, has a large surface, accurate, easy to adjust, great fence, and feels like a big cabinet saw. There's now a version from Steel City that's about identical.

My new 12" 22400 BS was an impulse purchase based on a sale price and my delight with the 22124. I'm nearly as pleased with it as the TS. I also bought (and sold) the Bosch made 1617 Craftsman router combo for $140 to hit the price incentives.....I didn't use it, but understand that it's a terrific router and the price was great.

I never dreamed I'd have this many CMan tools at this stage, but 3 out of 5 are excellent for the price, and the others are going strong whether I like them or not. I still approach every CMan tool purchase with skepticism and usually do enough research to know who makes it and where. There's still lots of junk on their shelves, but there are some very fine tools in the lineup too. I used to bash Sears tools right and left, but some of the new tools have made a convert out of me. For you remaining bashers out there...take a good open minded look at the new machinery before you form an opinion...skip scrutininzing the 2.4v plastic toy drill...we all know that it's junk, but look at the heavy CI stuff, and compare the Sears sales prices to the competition at that price level. My 22124 TS was under $600 and is a nice upgrade from any contractor saw I've seen or used....I'd take a 3hp cabinet saw to offer my than the 22124 does. My 22400 BS was $190....what else compares at that price? Maybe a good used machine, but nothing new that I'm aware of. When you take the bias blinders off, they've got some excellent machines IMHO.

p.s.: Even my Craftsman 14.4v drill/circ saw/vac combo for $53 is going strong too.

[Larry David]

I have a silky smooth Craftsman 12" band saw and I have no complaints with my Craftsman 14.4v right angle drill and 1/3 sheet finish sander. They all do the job well. This thread has turned into a Craftsman love fest.

[charliex]

Had some bad and some good Cman power tools. Mostly bad. end-o-rant.. It looks as though they are starting to improve the quality of their tools. I recently purchased the 14" Rikon look alike BS and it has done everything I asked of it so far, including resaw some 7 1/2" red oak. Fit and finish is very good and price was more than right. One thing I have always liked about Sears is the availiblity of replacement parts for almost everything they sell. If it breaks and you can get parts you can fix it where most other tool Co's insist you take or send it to their repair shop. If my BT ever dies I would take a good look at the Cman clone. Course the new Powermatic with the Jessem slide table has crossed my mind also.

[Popeye]

I don't quite understand the fess up part of this.... Personally I have and have had alot of Craftsman tools over many long years... and alot of other brands of tools. I've had both junk and great stuff from them all. I think in the past 10-15 years or so Sears has bought alot junk and put the Craftsman name on it. That seems to be changing which is good because I hate seeing a brand I grew up trusting going down the chute.
That said the only current Craftsman power tool I have is an old RAS which you'd have to pry "my cold dead hands" from. Wore out a beltsander (25yrs) and an ROS (12yrs) Wish I had my orginal router, it may still be in service. Dropped it and gave it to a friend who had broken the other half of his. Pat

[Texas splinter]

Like some others, I have had some good and some bad Craftsman tools. I quit buying hand tools from Sears when I started working on aircraft. The Sears line of hand tools are great for auto and other type mechanics, but most of the wrenches are just to bulkey to get into the tight places on the aircraft I was working on. So, I bought MAC or SnapOn. Truth be told, the Craftsman tools are easier to hang onto than the others if you have oily hands, but you work with what you have to work with.
When I first started wood working, I bought two Craftsman routers, first a cheap one on sale but it had too much end play so I got a better one. Same story-too much endplay. Trashed them and bought a DeWalt. Love it!
I live in a town where the sales people at Sears have long acted like you are imposing on them just by being in the store, so we don't go there much. I have "browsed" the tool section reciently, after reading about the new tools, and the clerks seemed like they maybe even wanted to help me out, so after I get my new shop (and more space) I may seriously look at the Bandsaws at Sears.

[eezlock]

Craftsman tools........

I too have some Craftsman tools that have been around for a long time and
still do the job as expected. I started with the 120 pc mechanics tool set
over 30 years ago, still have it, added to it many times only replaced a
couple of sockets here and there and screwdrivers a couple of times.
I have a Craftsman bandsaw a Rikon or Orion copy($139.00) love it works great,(2)Craftsman routers (1 was $59.00 on sale, other one was older model
I picked up at flea market for $10.00 they work great),also the Craftsman
all-in one tool with interchangeable bases and carry case (they had it on sale for $29.00 one day when I was in the store),a craftsman 18 volt
cordless drill ( came with case, charger and battery& bits) for $29.00
on sale in store, (1) of my tool boxes a 4 drawer model sitting on one of the benches,a Craftsman skillsaw ( freebie, replaced cord, runs perfectly).
My biggest/ baddest tool of all not exactly Craftsman is my pride and joy
a 2001 Chevrolet 1500HD crewcab 4x4 pickup. It was a top prize in the Craftsman truck and tools give away. It was won by a man in Denver,N.C.
came loaded with toolboxes full of tools (which he kept for his sons) and even though the truck had only 25,000 miles on it he sold it to me for a
VERY good price and I won't even think of selling it! It has all the bells and whistles you could ever want in any truck! I guess enough said about
Craftsman for this round....huh? eezlock

[jhart]

My experience with Craftsman has always been pretty positive. I own 2 cordless drills, shop Vav, 2 routers, router table, CMS, RAS and a number of hand tools.

Only time I haven't liked the product was when I bought a promo type product from them, usually the cheap end. Anything in mid to high end has preformed to my expectations. About the same experience when buying other tools, cheap ones usually don't last or perform.

I guess one of the things with getting older is that you get a little smarter and start doing a little research on products. It generally pays to buy the better item. It also helps that the family is grown and now have a little extra money to afford the better piece.

[os1kne]

I recently got a Craftsman circular saw that is about 30 years old for free. I know that the previous owner got a lot of use out of it, and it still works great. I have some other Craftsman tools that have also been good.

The only real problems that I've had with Craftsman tools have been tools that I should have known better than to buy to begin with (just by looking at them). I went through a couple of their cordless drills with the internal battery around 15 years ago - those drills were too cheap to be any good, I don't know why I was stupid enough to get a 2nd one. The death of the 2nd one prompted me to get a Makita that is still going strong today.

The router with the plastic ring-lock mechanism is also a problem.

For the most part, if the Craftsman tool seems to be built like other big-name brand tools - they tend to be fine. If there is some innovative design that no other manufacturer is using (i.e. the router with the plastic ring-lock mechanism), then you're probably better off with something else.

[WoodButcher26]

Got quite a few Craftsman tools over the years, including a R/A saw, couple of routers, 12" bandsaw, 20" scrollsaw, lathe, belt sander, 5 cordless drills, sanders, shop vac, etc.

R/A saw (1987) is doing fairly well but starting to wear (bearings and tracks on the arm), bandsaw is doing okay but difficult to adjust.

Scroll saw (1992) is easily the best of the bunch--only saw the model available for a couple of years in the early 90's, and then it disappeared never to be seen again. Cuts well, cuts smooth, great capacity.

As said in another thread, I wore out my first Craftsman lathe with not a lot of use--the bearings went out in the headstock and it was going to cost me more than the unit originally cost to replace them.

I'm on the second battery for a couple of the cordless drills, but otherwise they're doing great--batteries are generally cheaper for them than other brands, I've noticed. Belt sander (1988) is on its second switch, loud, doesn't track very well, no dust collection, but still going strong. Would honestly never buy another Craftsman sander, after using both DeWalt and PC units--no comparison whatsoever. Routers are not great--having collet probs with one of them (primary router table unit, need to replace it asap).

Have a lot of Craftsman hand tools in the tool box, and mostly good to say about them. Lose the ratchets first thing, get a Proto, Mac, or Snap-On.

Overall, probably a C+ -- B- rating...not suitable for professional or hard use, okay for folks like me who don't require great precision and don't want to pay lots of bucks.

[mcgrath4u]

Thinking back now, I have many craftsman tools that I would never complain about.

1) Jacks and Stands - can not mess up simple mechanical engineering and some hydraulics
2) Screw drivers, socket sets, wrenches, etc... If it breaks, take it back and get a "working" one. This includes tape measures.
3) 22124 - This is what I think craftsman main turning point. They began introducing great products and good prices. It has worked. Look at their TS's, bandsaws, drill presses, routers, etc.. They are filling in the mid range priced woodworking equipment with awsome products backed by amazing customer service.
4) 6 1/8 jointer- amazing jointer for a great clearance price
5) 19.6 V combo set. I have yet to complain about it. Cant cut much with the little circular saw, but it helps with 2x4's.
6) Belt/circular sander with new motor - picked that up for 5 bucks
7) older lathe chisels - they were my grandfathers and I am not prepared to try sharpening them with my grinder / sharpener skills.
8) Brad Nailer - works well. never has misfired.
9) CMS - great for rough stuff

I have a lot of craftsman stuff now that I think about it. I can attribute this to the deals they give on clearance items and the fact they allowed stacking of coupons not so long ago. This and my grandma used to work there so I get her employee discount also.

I have nothing from sears that I am dissatisfied with.

[vaking]

It is not about Craftsman tools!

I think the original question was somewhat incorrect. We all know that Craftsman is not a manufacturer, it is a trade name owned by Sears. Products themselves are made by many different companies. There is no such thing as a "Craftsman tool". The confusion appears because most tool manufacturers have narrowly defined audience. Bosch makes high quality tools for professional use - you can always trust quality of a tool with Bosch on it. Ryobi targets hobbyist market, their products are usually too light-duty for the pros. If Bosch wants to sell something for the "homeowner" they will sell it as "Skill" rather than Bosch to protect the name. Sears slaps "Craftsman" name on products for a diverse audience. You can find Craftsman routers made by Ryobi and Bosch-made 1617 with red handles. Those products are in different categories. One needs to be careful when buying Craftsman tools because of this. I believe Sears is not afraid to mix quality for a simple reason - professionals know quality when they see it and they will not buy a tool made by Ryobi regardless of a name on a tool. And if the amateur accidentally decides to pay high price for a professional tool - he will not be disappointed. This approach works only for tools that are sold at the counter -Bosch cannot aford it since most Bosch tools are sold remotely. Customer has to trust the name Bosch without looking at the tool. The "Crapsman rant" in my opinion comes from people who think of themselves as professionals but cannot tell apart good tool from bad and are trying to get a professional tool for a price of "Ryobi". The problem is not with the product or the name, it is with the buyer.
Most craftsman tools (not all though) have counterparts from original manufacturers available either in different stores or over Internet. The Craftsman version will typically be a little more expensive because Sears makes it more convinient to buy and service the tool. So the better question to ask is "how many people think it is worth paying the extra 10% to buy a Craftsman version of 1617 vs a native Bosch 1617?" "Craftsman" name is not about tool quality, it is about quality and convinience of service. The tool will have the same quality whether it carries name Craftsman or the name of original maker.

I personally am not prepared to pay anything extra for Craftsman service, I don't think it is that great especially after the Sears/Kmart merger. Yet I have a lot of Craftsman tools. The reason is very simple - Sears store is right next to my job and I pass by tool department almost every lunch. I will never pay full price for a Craftsman tool, but I will gladly buy a deeply discounted tool in a clearance section when Sears discontinues something. Almost everything "Craftsman" I have was bought at 50 - 75% off but with no warranty. If I know that the jig saw was made by Bosch (1587 clone) I have no problems buying it for $35 without warranty. All of my Craftsmans are working well. If they brake - I will have to pay for the service.