Refinishing antique piano

[gsmittle]

My wife was given a free piano, a Vose & Sons upright. The serial # indicates that it was made around 1900-1915. Some idiot spray-painted the thing white, with gold spray-paint "accents."

Near as I can tell, the original wood is walnut. Needless to say, I'd like to strip the paint and restore the walnut to its former glory.

Does anybody have an idea what finish might have been original to the piano? It looks like the idiot didn't strip the original finish, just painted over it.

Since this is a functioning musical instrument (well, it will be once it's tuned) I need to be careful stripping the paint and refinishing. There's even spray paint on the inside, fortunately not on the action or the hammers.

Thanks!

g.

[jziegler]

I would reccommend talking to a good piano technician about reccommendations for what to use to refinish. The piano in my house is an old one that was her grandmother's, and it was rebuilt and possibly refinished about 10-15 years ago. The person that we currently use for tuning did the work on it. So, ask your tuner first.

Jim

[Pappy]

The time period would make me think shelac but, like Jim said, talk to a pro that deals with them.

[JTimmons]

My wife and I found one at a local antique store about 2 years ago. It came out of a local Catholic church and was said that it was a Depression Era piano. No markings, serial number or labels as to who the made it. Later found out that, pianos falling off the back of trucks happen quite frequently back in this era and the mob used to remove all the markings on them and sell them.
Never did find out who made it and sold it to a co-worker for what I paid for it $50.00.
Basically you're one step ahead of most knowing the maker and serial number.
I found a list of antique piano manufacturers a while back doing a Google search that had the serial numbers, manufactor and manufacturerured date along with pictures and finishes, but cannot locate the site right now. I will look for it when I get home and post it on here if I find it.

[newbie2wood]

There are many piano manufacturers, some are long out-of-business. Generally, a piano does not hold it value well unless it is a high end brand, like a Steinway. Unless it has sentimental or nostagic value for you, check with a technician to determine if the piano is worth restoring. The action may look okay but a technician has the ear and equipment to verify the condition.
________
Park Royal 3 Condo Prathumnak

[JTimmons]

I couldn't find the website that I mentioned above but found a listing currently up on Ebay, not sure if it's close or not.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VOSE-and-SONS-Vo...QQcmdZViewItem

Found this site as well: http://www.secondhandpianos.net/index.htm
They give a list pianos they like to restore and Vose and Sons is one of them. They have an email address so you might be able to ask them.

[craigagain]

If I were you... my first impulse would be to do a French Polish with shellac. time consuming but very easy to do. But if the value of the thing isn't much, or if it is in bad shape after stripping it, I would recommend a spray AUTOMOTIVE lacquer. Dries hard, fast, easy to refinish mistakes (runs) and will last until someone decides to paint it white again.

[wardprobst]

Heh G,

I'd have the piano evaluated before you start by a piano technician. You don't want to spend a lot of time on an old piano only to find out it has problems that make it not cost effective to repair.
We figure about 90 hours to refinish an upright in our shop but we do a pretty decent hand rubbed lacquer finish. Originally your piano had shellac or possibly varnish for a finish. Lacquer was used post WWI in piano factories.
Ken Gerler is a piano technician in the St. Louis area and he's a good guy. Tell him I referred you and that you need an evaluation.

Dale

[vaking]

I have a book with a chapter about piano finish. According to the book the piano typically has several different woods, walnut that you see is just one of at least 8 different woods. The finish typically has multi-layer laquer with gloss on top.
According to the book finishing the piano is quite a challenge - if you can strip the paint and keep the laquer - consider yourself lucky.

[cabinetman]

You could have the piano evaluated to see its worth. If you feel qualified to do the refinishing, you have some alternatives. On a place not noticable, use a rag with a little bit of denatured alcohol, if finish comes off, it's shellac. If you do the same with lacquer thinner, it could be lacquer or varnish or shellac. If you use mineral spirits it is varnish. The finish probably won't be satisfactory once you get the paint off, cause it's painted for a reason. You could use "Citristrip", available at the big box stores. It smells like oranges, can be used inside and cleans up with water.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Most likely shellac, could be a oil finish. You should easily be able to tell the difference IF you can retain the original finish while removing the paint (pretty much impossible). A piano dating 1900 is not going to have varnish or lacquer as those synthetics were not invented until the 1920s and was not wide spread until the 30's.
If it was me personally I would use poly or nitrocellulose lacquer. If there is a huge demand for authenticity, then shellac is the only way you can go.

[wardprobst]

Actually the Egyptians were using a varnish developed from the acacia tree by 1000BC. The Japanese developed what they call lacquer from the varnish tree.
Nitrocellulose lacquer was developed after WWI when scientist were looking for ways to use up a huge store of nitrocellose (gun cotton) left over from the war. Most likely the Vose has a crazed varnish finish under the paint.

The question remains as to whether the instrument itself is worth it but that needs inspection by a technican. Sometimes free pianos can cost a lot, DAMHIK.

Dale

[gsmittle]

Thanks to all for the replies and suggestions. SWMBO has always wanted a piano, so I'll do whatever it takes to get playable again.

Actually, the action feels pretty good (I'm not a pianist, but I have played with several brands/types of pianos). It's badly in need of a tune, and the lowest G-natural key doesn't work. The geniuses also took off the casters, so right now it's sitting on its skid plate. I should probably replace the cast iron casters with more modern ones, but that requires laying the thing on it's back, and that bugger is HEAVY!

Anyway, the piano tech is the first order of business, then we'll see about restoring the finish. It's definitely a veneer--there are several chipped places and one spot on the top where somebody probably had a plant; the veneer is peeled there. Probably a dash of hide glue will stabilize that.... I think I'll be happy if I can get the spray paint off (poor baby looks like a cheap hooker--I need to post a photo) and spiff up the veneer.

I hear ya about the free stuff, Dale. I've spent more time and aggravation on "free" stuff that it's worth sometimes.

On a side note, sometimes I've thought about being a piano tech. I spent a whole day once watching a piano guy take an old upright apart and refurb it. I was supposed to be building scenery, but what the heck....

Again, thanks for all the suggestions. I'll definitely post before and after pix when the time comes.

g.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Actually the Egyptians were using a varnish developed from the acacia tree by 1000BC. The Japanese developed what they call lacquer from the varnish tree.
Nitrocellulose lacquer was developed after WWI when scientist were looking for ways to use up a huge store of nitrocellose (gun cotton) left over from the war. Most likely the Vose has a crazed varnish finish under the paint.

Dale, you are absolutely right. However those varnishs took weeks to dry and as such were rarely used until improvements in curing and drying were applied in the 1900's with the advent of quick drying solvents.

I still go with shellac under the paint, though I don't believe it will matter as you will not be able to save it. Strip down to the wood, even out any discoloration and then go back with modern finish of choice.

[pierhogunn]

I third the motion for an examination by a trained pro, the older the pro, the better.

Old Pianos can be astoundingly beautiful, and as such often make nice furniture, however there are some mechanical things that wear out, simple from the stress of having several hundred pounds of strain inside of them


Did the goober who painted it, paint inside the lid of the piano? if not you can do your laquer thinner vs. denatured alc. test in there