Drones everywhere!

[woodturner]

What is interesting is that my neighbor's chicken killing dog may be shot by me should I catch it outside of his fenced yard even if it is within the city or on the public or even private right-of way.

I suspect that local ordinances vary widely. Around here, it's not legal to kill someone's pet, essentially for any reason other than imminent threat to human life. There have been some cases recently where someone killed a pit bull because they felt threatened, and were charged.

[woodturner]

The promptly stomped on it and threw in the trash and the we all played dumb when to owner came looking it.

Sounds like theft, destruction of property, and conspiracy . Be aware that many drones have cameras, and he may well have recorded your actions.

Another way to think about the issue - if the neighbor's teenager leaved their skateboard or bicycle in your front yard, would you think you had the right to take it or damage it?

I do think this is going to become a bigger issue - many drones are expensive enough that destroying one could lead to felony charges. I think the lawmakers are going to have to address these issues.

As a practical matter, if spying is the goal, the drone is unnecessary - a long lens and camera are less expensive solutions.

[Stytooner]

Honestly I would not do anything. There isn't much that is around my place that can't already be seen on Google Earth. As long as it was flying safely away from power lines, buildings and people, they can waste all the battery juice they want.
They would quickly tire of it. Old man sun bathing anyone?
I do foresee a lot of new laws coming about in the future.

[LinuxRandal]

All this drone talk, brings me back to the old model rocketry days. (missle setup anyone)

[All Thumbs]

I'm not going to interfere with some kid's chance at fun. If I see a drone I'm going to go look for the pilot and maybe get a demo of the capabilities.

[parnelli]

I have read that FAA owns space above 500ft (in residential areas) and you own 400ft above your land. Drone can use space above 400 but below 500. Charges for shooting down the drone come from city ordinances about no shooting is allowed within city limits or something like that.

There is no right to the airspace above your house at any altitude. Seems crazy, but true.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/new-drone-telemetry-suggests-shot-down-drone-was-higher-than-alleged/

Also, I think most of us (me included) like to think of our 'right to privacy', but I don't think that legally one exists as much as we think it does. Somebody can fly a balloon, or a helicopter, or a plane over our house and be looking at us just as much or more than a toy helicopter.

It's an interesting world...I know a guy who has been custom making these things for years and years now- before they were popular- and some of these things weigh 12-15 pounds or more. Sooner or later one of these things is going to fall on somebody and seriously hurt/injure/kill somebody and I suppose that's when we'll start seeing lots of laws about them.

[capncarl]

I agree with All Thumbs and do not want to be the grumpy old man complaining that someone walked on my lawn! I am glad they are learning to use the technology, like we were with CB radios. That approach stops when the drones become annoying and dangerous like the kid zooming down the street on his loud go-kart. I won't attempt to shoot it down until they put a mechanical hand on it and come grab a steak off the grill or a piece of fried chicken off the table.
capncarl

[TB Roye]

These were not kds but young adults who have showed not respet over the years they have lived on the street behind us. If flying RC aircraft isn't allow in the city why are Drones allowed. We have contact our city councilmen. They were flyng this thing around on the fourth of July while setting off illegal fireworks. If it happens agaoin down it will come and it will be give to the Police.


Tom

[cwsmith]

As these things become more prevalent and the number of complaints from homeowners increases, then perhaps community ordinances will be written to restrict their activity.

I'm not really opposed to them in general... but when some idiot knowingly interferes with "airspace", like at airports and emergency services (like forest fires, ambulances, etc.) then laws should be clear and prosecution swift.

Just having a drone flying over my yard is not so much a problem as much as loud radios, barking dogs, and too many strange cars parking in front of the house. Problem will come when I find drones hovering for some purpose, no body has that right "spy" anymore than a neighbor would to setup a surveillance camera pointing into my backyard. Challenge of course would be to identify the owner of the drone.

Identifying a drone's source shouldn't be too challenging either. They are radio-controlled and it shouldn't take too much effort to identify the frequencies that they operate at. If they have the right to use that frequency without an FCC license, so do you. How long will it be before someone markets a general variable-frequency "defense" transmitter? While the transmit power would have to be low, you'd be closer to the drone than the owner would be.

(I just did a quick Google search of "radio frequency of hobby drones" and here's just a two of many articles: http://www.droneflyers.com/2014/11/b...copter-drones/

https://crab.wordpress.com/2010/02/1...-down-a-drone/)

If these become a big problem in your neighborhood, you could do as the Brits did to fight the Blitz...."Barrage Balloons". Of course your barrage balloons could be little more than a few Helium balloons and some strong fishing line.

CWS

[woodturner]

I'm not really opposed to them in general... but when some idiot knowingly interferes with "airspace", like at airports and emergency services (like forest fires, ambulances, etc.) then laws should be clear and prosecution swift.

I understand those are protected airspaces and there are existing laws to deal with incursions and infractions.

no body has that right "spy" anymore than a neighbor would to setup a surveillance camera pointing into my backyard.

While I appreciate the desire for some level of privacy, there is essentially no legal protection of it. It's legal for a neighbor to point a camera into your backyard or into your window, provided they do not trespass to do it. In the same way, a person with a telephoto lens can photograph your house, backyard, etc. from public property.

If they have the right to use that frequency without an FCC license, so do you. How long will it be before someone markets a general variable-frequency "defense" transmitter?

Jammers in any form are illegal and the FCC is fairly active in prosecuting offenders. It is illegal to intentionally interfere with any radio signal - so, no, you cannot legally take control of someone's drone or intentially interfere with it using radio waves.

You are correct that you have the right to fly your own drone and use the frequency to do that, provided no one else is using it at the time. In the unlicensed bands and power levels, it's first come first served.

As a practical matter, anything other than low end drones will likely use a pn sequence or other encoding, so that multiple drones can operate on the same frequency without interfering with each other. Consequently, even if you wanted to, it would be very difficult to impossible to interfere with them without a broadband noise jammer, which would quickly attract FCC attention. Think of turning on a spotlight on a pitch black night - that's about what the jammers look like to the FCC, and they are that easy to find and localize.

[leehljp]

Here is an interesting Drone development:

http://news.yahoo.com/drone-drops-drugs-ohio-prison-yard-spurring-inmate-155039206.html

Read some of the comments. Somewhat like what we have here.

[cwsmith]

Actually, it is illegal to point a surveillance camera into a neighbors yard without their permission. I had an incident a few years ago with a neighbor coming into my yard... broke a window, smashed off a door knob, etc. While I couldn't prove that they did it, the police thought it obvious. I was told to put up surveillance cameras in an effort to catch them. BUT, I was warned that I absolutely could not place them so that I purposely observed their yard. Perhaps that's only in this area though.

Regarding the "jamming", you are correct. But like flying a drone over your yard for whatever purpose, the jamming would have to be proven. Interference transmissions is illegal, as is RFI emmisions, but the latter happens all the time and certainly it is frequent in many of the other bands. As a Ham radio operator, I know full well how hard it is to get anything done about it. The "bands" are full of RFI, with everything from touch lamps to power lines. Proving that such things are intentional is another matter even when such bands are licensed. Many bands, such as those used by hobby drones are not really regulated any more than the Citizens band is.

I'm not arguing that RFI is a good way to rid your yard of drones, as it would be somewhat of an expense and you certainly cannot set up a continual transmission. But it is a technological way to bring down a drone that is in hovering over your yard... and it's a lot less dangerous than using a shotgun. Problem of course is catching the right frequency and then having just the right equipment (like another controller) to execute the action. Neither of which would be normally probable.

CWS

[capncarl]

I hadn't thought about using a drone for illegal contraband. A warden friend says that they have trouble with contraband being delivered by socker balls and basket balls being thrown over the fences, a drone would be the trick for that. I suppose a rich drug cartel could have a fleet of drones that shuttle it over the fences to waiting mules.

[Stytooner]

you could load non lethal rounds in a shotgun shell. Bean bags etc.
Doesn't have to be a 12 gauge. Could be 410. Even a BB gun would probably take one out. Nerf gun. Little rubber dart gun. Rubber band gun, super soaker. Why let the kids have all the fun?

If it is hoovering and has a camera on board, then a laser pointer is probably the best deterrent.
Blind the camera.

There was an episode of Modern Family a while back that had this problem. Phil was also having a problem keeping his swimming trunks up.

[woodturner]

Actually, it is illegal to point a surveillance camera into a neighbors yard without their permission. I had an incident a few years ago with a neighbor coming into my yard... broke a window, smashed off a door knob, etc. While I couldn't prove that they did it, the police thought it obvious. I was told to put up surveillance cameras in an effort to catch them. BUT, I was warned that I absolutely could not place them so that I purposely observed their yard. Perhaps that's only in this area though.

I've been told by attorneys several times that is not illegal, so I suspect the police officers that told you that were misinformed, or perhaps there was some nuance of your situation that would have made that questionable. As long as it is done from your own property or public property, I have been advised it is legal to observe and photograph anything other than airports, specific government buildings, or anything else specifically protected by law. The most recent specific advice was concerning use of a drone in an area adjoining a residential neighborhood, and I was advised that there are essentially no restrictions.

FWIW, on TV crime shows, youtube, etc. you can find many examples of people videoing their neighbors in the neighbor's yard. You would think if it were illegal anywhere we would have heard about it or it would be cited on the TV shows where they show that video.