Quick Spring project - first "pocket hole" effort

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  • BadeMillsap
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 868
    • Bulverde, Texas, USA.
    • Grizzly G1023SL

    Quick Spring project - first "pocket hole" effort

    I generally try to learn something new or build something that will be around after I'm gone.

    In this case it was to see what I like and dislike about "pocket hole" joinery. I've read MANY posts on different woodworking boards by both avid proponents and avid opponents of pocket hole joinery. Both sides seem to have valid points and I'm not here to agree or disagree with either ... personally I like dowel joinery for places where it works using a Dowelmax jig for precision and M/T when it's called for. I've also nailed a few things together in my time!

    At Christmas I was given a Kreg K5 jig and up to this project had not opened the box.

    We have a couple of outdoor "on the deck" events coming up and I noticed that a couple of the store bought deck chairs were not going to be participating in those events due to neglect and abuse ... sooo I looked for a plan that would give me an opportunity to "hopefully" quickly build a couple of replacement chairs and at the same time give me an opportunity to try out "pocket hole" joinery.

    I stumbled upon this plan => Chief's Deck chair and decided it fit the bill.

    I had the K5 and in addition the HD jig for the Kreg. Looking at the plan it was clear the heavy duty jig/screws were called for so I ordered 125 2 1/2" HD screws. 125 screws SOUNDS like a lot .... these two chairs took 134 HD screws! ... and additional 1 1/4 Kreg screws AND additional 2 1/2" and 1/1/4" deck screws. I was out about $30 in screws all tolled.

    Regardless, learning to use the jig itself was very straight forward. It took only one serious screw-up (pun intended) to understand the plan's indicators for screw direction ... after that it was:

    1) Cut a bunch of pieces for the two chairs (the plan's cutlist did a good job of not wasting material)

    2) Drilling a whole bunch of holes!

    3) Following the plan steps for assembly ... all clearly described and pictured. (I did use PL adhesive in addition to the screws on the 2x4 joints)

    4) A little sanding and I sprayed with rattle can Thompson's clear solvent based sealer realizing that it probably won't really protect but the wood was all pressure treated and cedar so it should age well.

    As the pics show these are by no means fine furniture ... in fact I don't think I used my table saw at all ... I used my sliding miter saw for the straight and angle cuts and my bandsaw for the very casually cut curves (meaning I know they aren't perfect but I was going for fast and close).

    One thing I CAN say ... these puppies won't blow over in a big wind ... they weigh about 60# each (they've got enough screws in them to account for several of those pounds!)

    As far as the "pocket hole" joinery experience ... it IS fast ... I can't say it is particularly "cheap" considering the cost of specialized screws. I'm satisfied that for this project the strength of the joinery is adequate, but I think the use of the "HD" jig/screws was called for. I'll use it again when I want fast vs fine I think.
    Attached Files
    "Like an old desperado, I paint the town beige ..." REK
    Bade Millsap
    Bulverde, Texas
    => Bade's Personal Web Log
    => Bade's Lutherie Web Log
  • atgcpaul
    Veteran Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 4055
    • Maryland
    • Grizzly 1023SLX

    #2
    Looks good from here. The plans did a good job of putting the pocket holes in inconspicuous locations. Did you use the screws rated for pressure treated wood?

    I also like to use pocket screws for temporarily holding jogs together, etc. The flat head has great holding power and the square drive doesn't easily strip out so I can reuse screws many times. The self drilling tip also does a good job of not splitting the wood. I bought about 1000 off-label ones from CS Hardware for cheaper than the Kreg ones.

    Comment

    • BadeMillsap
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2005
      • 868
      • Bulverde, Texas, USA.
      • Grizzly G1023SL

      #3
      Originally posted by atgcpaul
      L Did you use the screws rated for pressure treated wood?.
      Yeah the HD screws are "triple dipped in magic fairy goo..." to protect for outside use ...
      "Like an old desperado, I paint the town beige ..." REK
      Bade Millsap
      Bulverde, Texas
      => Bade's Personal Web Log
      => Bade's Lutherie Web Log

      Comment

      • wardprobst
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2006
        • 681
        • Wichita Falls, TX, USA.
        • Craftsman 22811

        #4
        Nice work, so did you like the Kreg jig?DP
        www.wardprobst.com

        Comment

        • BadeMillsap
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2005
          • 868
          • Bulverde, Texas, USA.
          • Grizzly G1023SL

          #5
          Originally posted by wardprobst
          Nice work, so did you like the Kreg jig?DP
          Thank you.

          For the purpose it serves I felt like the jig itself was well made, easy to use and made the task much easier than trying to accomplish the same type of joinery without the jig. I know there are other brands besides Kreg but this is my only experience.

          Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
          "Like an old desperado, I paint the town beige ..." REK
          Bade Millsap
          Bulverde, Texas
          => Bade's Personal Web Log
          => Bade's Lutherie Web Log

          Comment

          • JimD
            Veteran Member
            • Feb 2003
            • 4187
            • Lexington, SC.

            #6
            Looks good. Screw and glues is what I used for my first furniture that we used until moving to the current house less than 2 years ago. So we used it over 30 years. They weren't pocket screws but worked. I use pocket screws mainly where they do not show. I've done face frames with them. I most recently built a cart for my shop vacuum and dust deputy using pocket screws (and glue). It was easier than using through screws for many of the fasteners. I plan to use it for a cabinet shortly - for my shop. The cabinet will be built of BCX plywood so the materials seem appropriate to the joints.

            If my wife lets me build the kitchen cabinets they will also get pocket screws but only where they won't show.

            I didn't love it but one of the magazines, I think it was Wood, published an article on joints and found that pocket screws were stronger than biscuits and dowels and weaker than only mortise and tenons. I thought biscuits would have been closer but they weren't, they were the weakest.

            While I don't love the appearance, pocket screws are not just fast, they are also strong.

            Comment

            • capncarl
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2007
              • 3564
              • Leesburg Georgia USA
              • SawStop CTS

              #7
              I like pocket hole screws for cabinets but my main purposes for purchasing the Kreg set was to eliminate the need for mortse and tennon on my small (12"x12" and 8" x 16" ) tables. No luck, screws split the antique pine every time. Back to floating tendons for my tables.
              capncarl

              Comment

              • sailor55330
                Established Member
                • Jan 2010
                • 494

                #8
                I have the HF version and I'll admit that it's not joinery to be proud of and show off, but I've yet to have one fail. Quick, easy, virtually goofproof. The Kreg clamps do help a lot with assembly, even if they are a little spendy for my tastes.

                I like the chairs---the cedar and pressure treated actually look pretty decent together.

                Comment

                • BadeMillsap
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 868
                  • Bulverde, Texas, USA.
                  • Grizzly G1023SL

                  #9
                  Originally posted by sailor55330
                  The Kreg clamps do help a lot with assembly, even if they are a little spendy for my tastes.

                  I like the chairs---the cedar and pressure treated actually look pretty decent together.
                  Thank you.

                  I do have one of the Kreg face clamps and one of the kreg right angle clamps. I did use both during the build and agree they help.




                  Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
                  "Like an old desperado, I paint the town beige ..." REK
                  Bade Millsap
                  Bulverde, Texas
                  => Bade's Personal Web Log
                  => Bade's Lutherie Web Log

                  Comment

                  • jabe
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 566
                    • Hilo, Hawaii
                    • Ryobi BT3000 & Delta Milwaukee 10" tilting Table circular saw

                    #10
                    I've used Kreg jig for a long time (25+ yrs) in fact my jig is all aluminum. We used it a lot when I taught High School woodshop, just told them to use it where it won't show on the project. We never had a failure, always strong and secure. Now you can buy plugs for the pocket so it won't look so bad. Now pocket hole joints are my go to joint for most of my projects and yes I still try to use it where it won't show.

                    Comment

                    • billwmeyer
                      Veteran Member
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 1858
                      • Weir, Ks, USA.
                      • BT3000

                      #11
                      Pocket holes are my go to joint. I agree that they are only appropriate when concealed. I have made many things with them and no problems.
                      "I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in."-Kenny Rogers

                      Comment

                      • PartTimeHack
                        Forum Newbie
                        • Mar 2015
                        • 41
                        • TN
                        • Ryobi BT3000

                        #12
                        I really like the Kreg jigs myself. You are right about the h'ware being costly.

                        There is a 2-sided chart/selector wheel they have available now that makes the selection of screws and jig settings a little less confusing given the material thickness and orientation.

                        Comment

                        • capncarl
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 3564
                          • Leesburg Georgia USA
                          • SawStop CTS

                          #13
                          I found a source for pocket hole "type" screws long ago at a flea market south of Dothan Ala. A vendor has a store set up and sells all type of fasteners by the pound. These round head square drive screws were used by the mobile home industry and came in coarse adm fine threads. They are not coated for outside use but for this price I can use them for everything. I'll bet mr Google knows where they could be bought in bulk.
                          capncarl

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