elecrolysis of planes

[thesleeper]

how do you do it? simple is the best way. i do have a battery charger 12 volt i believe. for boat trolling motors. what does that do? take off the rust.
thanks for any input
frank

[scmhogg]

Frank,

Check out this link.
http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/Electrolysis.htm

I used one of the five gallon plastic buckets they sell at the BORG. I use rebar for the rods. I really works well. I am always amazed at the results. I think it is some sort of black magic. Be sure to do it outdoors. The process produces hydrogen. Remember the Hindenberg.[:0]

Steve

[gmack5]

Pappy has a tutorial on his web site about "Rehabing Planes", you might want to go there and look around, lots of good information on the process and equipment.
you'll find it here: http://community.webshots.com/user/pappysplaypen

[germdoc]

I use a 12-volt battery charger and a cheap wrench for the other terminal. Piece of cake--follow Pappy's recs.

It is like magic and works really well. I've read some places that if you keep it in too long, you start to remove some of the oxidative patina that many collectors drool over. In other words, you get a shiny tool rather than a nicely aged tool. I don't leave it in that long--just enough to get off the obvious rust and corrosion.

[Pappy]

Thaks for the votes of confidence, guys. The only comments I will add is to use the 'PH Add" for pools (pure Sodium Crbonate and cheaper in the long run than washing soda) and make sure the positive clip on the charger stays out of the solution.

Edit: 'nother thought. I have been using a plastic hospital tub for small parts and the bottom of a 55gal plastic barrel for #5 and larger bodies. Picked up an aquarium at an auction today for $5 that will handle anything up to a #6 and require less sulotion than the barrel.

[vinht]

Pappy,

I tried sending you an email with questions about electrolysis but it got bounced back to me. Anyway, here they are again, some may be obvious to most but I had to ask...
[list=1][*]When rotating a piece during the electrolysis process should I wear something to protect my hands? Or, should I not even put my hands in it? I'm guessing I should not but had to ask anyway.[*]I plan on using an angle iron, does size matter? Is less better in this case?[*]When bathing smaller pieces, can I do more than one at a time? If yes, do all the pieces need to touch the negative lead somehow or just one?[*]Can I put every part of a plane in this bath? Is there any part of a plane you would NOT do this to?
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Until now I have not had the need to try this. Today I picked up a #4 at an antique show that I plan to give as a gift to a friend but needs major cleaning.

Thanks in advance Pappy,
Vinh

[Pappy]

Vinh, don't know what is up with my email lately. I will delete it from my profile and re-enter it. Maybe that will help.

It's too late tonight for a long post but I will get back to you tomorrow.

[Pappy]

Here you go, Vinh.

1. The article I read in ShopNotes on the process said to disconnect the + lead before sticking your hand in the solution. I don't normally and the most I have ever got is a mild tingling type shock.

2. Yes, size matters on the anode. I use a piece of angle that is nearly the length of the pan in my small tank and 2 pieces of flat bar in the big tank. Weld an 'arm' to the anode that will stick out of the solution for the + clip. If the clip is in the water, it will be consumed by the process.

3. All parts have to be connected to the negative lead. I made this for bathing severeal small parts together. The clips are spot welded to the bar.


4. The only parts I don't use electoysis on are the wood and the brass parts. For the brass, I use steel wool and Brasso.

[vinht]

Thanks Pappy. I'm running out today to get a battery charger. I'll have to figure out an easy way to rig up my own system for smaller parts. I'll probably try to a hang wires from a long piece that spans the top of the bucket like the guy in the Rowand link. Any suggestions on materials to use? I may have to go buy a long piece of iron.

UPDATE:
Ok, went to HD at lunch and picked up a few things. The Rowand link scared me enough to double check with the experts here to be sure I am using proper materials. I hope someone can confirm what I plan on using will work and is safe/legal to use.

For the negative lead I bought a zinc plated steel bar with holes along its length. I plan on tying steel wire to the holes which will hang into the bath solution that will hold the plane or the small pieces. By the way, the wire is dark annealed steel wire, is this ok? Can I use copper wire instead? The Rowand link mentioned using copper in the bath will make it messy.

For the positive lead I have two zinc plated threaded rods that I will clamp to the sides of the bucket and connect them with copper wire.

This stuff makes me nervous so I hope someone can help. TIA.

Vinh

[vinht]

quote:Originally posted by germdoc
It is like magic and works really well. I've read some places that if you keep it in too long, you start to remove some of the oxidative patina that many collectors drool over. In other words, you get a shiny tool rather than a nicely aged tool. I don't leave it in that long--just enough to get off the obvious rust and corrosion.

Hey Doc, how long does the process usually take? Also, will it be safe to do this in my two-car garage with both doors open?

Thanks,
Vinh

[germdoc]

I have a heavily oxidized plane from the 1870's and kept it in a total of about 6 hs. until the brown stuff was totally gone and there was just clean grey iron. It really doesn't produce massive quantities of H2 gas, so I doubt there is any explosion risk. The sludge on the plane does contain hydroxide, so I would wear heavy rubber gloves when taking it out.

I wonder if Pappy leaves his in longer??

[Pappy]

For small parts like washers and screws, I kick the charger up to 10 amps and bathe them about an hour. Screw slots and threads get cleaned with a brass brush and then scrubbed with a pad.

Frogs, bodies, cutters, etc vary on time but always on the lower setting on the charger. Time depends on how bad the piece is but 3-4 hrs usually does the trick.

[vinht]

I'm having problems getting this work. Hope someone can help...

I am using two steel rebars for the positive lead clamped to the sides with the ends connected by copper wire. I have another steel rebar for the negative lead sitting across the top of the bucket with steel annealed wire holding up the plane. There are bubbles all over the plane but nothing else seems to work. It was on all night but nothing changed this morning. I unplugged the charger and reconnected everything and now 5 hours later all I see are bubbles on the plane but nothing seems to work.

Any ideas?

[vinht]

It's official. I'm an idiot!

If you have been following this thread you will know that I was nervous to try electrolysis and was having problems getting it to work. I emailed Pappy with tons of questions and he kindly helped. After all the fiddling around I finally found out why it was not working. I am admitting to this so others will not do what I did.

First of all, this is not hard at all, unless of course you are an idiot like me. If you read Pappy's tutorial you will know that he uses AquaChem that can be bought at Lowes. In his pictures of the supplies needed you can clearly see the red bottle of AquaChem. Well, I went to Lowes and saw there were different color bottles of AquaChem, presumably for the different types of applications. So I naturally grabbed one of the red bottles.

Last night I went over the emails Pappy had sent and noted him stating that he uses the AquaChem ph increaser. Turns out I had picked up a ph decreaser. On further inspection of the bottle the ingredients read, Sodium Bisulfate not Sodium Carbonate. Both bottles are red but obviously not the same.

Interestingly enough it produced small bubbles and appeared to work as some of the rust came off but it did not fully work as in Pappy's tutorial. As always, the lesson here is to slow down and be sure you everything is in place. I have not tried this yet but I am very confident this was the problem.

Vinh

[germdoc]

Vinh et al--

You can use regular old bicarbonate of soda, about $.50 per box. All you need is an electrolyte to enable the transfer of current from cathode to anode, or vice versa, I don't remember much physics anymore. Or chemistry for that matter. I do know that I got confused re' carbonates etc. and just tried the old bicarb from the pantry, which I had read somewhere or other would work. Yep. Works like a charm.

Best part is if I get tired of electrolyzing planes I can bake a cake with it. Or refresh my refrig. Or brush my teeth. Or....