Broken tooth

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  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20847
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    Broken tooth

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    Miter saw been splintering and making rough cuts whereas it used to give polished cross cuts with the Diablo D12100X 12" ATB miter saw blade.

    On inspection found a broken tooth​ The other teeth look and feel OK but this one is rough around the edges. Almost directly opposite the broken tooth (49, but not 50 teeth away) is a slightly bent tooth. My dial indicator says its .009" bent to the side.
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    Have the tooth replaced? Resharpened? $29 for sharpening not sure how much for the tooth. Two years old

    New $75 at HD, $58 at Amazon.

    What's the advice here?

    Maybe I did this when cutting some Aluminum. Should have put on the cheapo blade that came with the saw. HiATB blades are fragile at the tips. Was too lazy for one cut. From now on just TCG non-ferrous metal cutting blades for aluminum!.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 09-17-2023, 02:43 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions
  • Answer selected by LCHIEN at 11-10-2023, 04:16 AM.
    LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20847
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    So anyway after doing something bad to this blade I have a sharp blade, cuts almost like new but with a teensy bit of tearout at the back on my miter saw. I ended up spending nothing but a fair amount of time measuring, complaining then working on it my self over four weeks.

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    I do have a new blade I bought when this first went south so I basically have a spare for that cost.
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-10-2023, 11:31 AM.

    Comment

    • LCHIEN
      Internet Fact Checker
      • Dec 2002
      • 20847
      • Katy, TX, USA.
      • BT3000 vintage 1999

      #2
      How I ended up with this blade

      I've been noticing on my mitersaw that I have been getting tearout on the backside of the cut. I don't recall this being a problem in the past, but maybe I've changed blades as I used to use a CMT 96T before I wrecked it and then for a while a DeWalt 100T blade. I have a 12" 80T negative hook angle Avanti Pro blade on my
      Last edited by LCHIEN; 09-18-2023, 12:30 AM.
      Loring in Katy, TX USA
      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

      Comment

      • capncarl
        Veteran Member
        • Jan 2007
        • 3557
        • Leesburg Georgia USA
        • SawStop CTS

        #3
        I don’t know about tooth replacement. I have a couple of 3/4” carbide tipped 111” blades for my Rikon bandsaw. I hit a loose knot while resawing a large piece of old sinker pine and the proverbial hitting the fan happened, bending the blade and knocking off several carbide teeth. I sent it back to have the teeth replaced and blade re-straightened. If the replacement of carbide bits are an example of what a repaired blade looks like then I’d say you would be better off trying to grind that bad tooth off and continuing using the blade.

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20847
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #4
          Talked to the foreman at the local sharpening company.

          He said that replacing a tooth would cost about $25. he recommended that they would just grind down the old tooth so it didn't stick out and that you'd never notice being just a 99T blade instead of 100.

          I also said one tooth looked bent, he said they would straighten the tooth and grind it in line with the others.

          So is it worth having this blade reworked for $29 as a spare?
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment


          • Dedpedal
            Dedpedal commented
            Editing a comment
            I would try it.
        • twistsol
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 2884
          • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
          • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

          #5
          I use Quinn Saw for sharpening and they do an excellent job. Their price for sharpening a 100 tooth blade is $30 and $5 to replace a tooth. By the time you pay for shipping, you'd be at the same price as new from Amazon.

          I'd be concerned about the balance of the blade spinning at high speed with a tooth missing.
          Chr's
          __________
          An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
          A moral man does it.

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20847
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #6
            I'm not too worried about the balance. Its only half a tooth out of 100 so a half a percent imbalance, And the weight of all the teeth is a small fraction of the weight of a 12" steel disk.plus the motor rotating mass, even though those are less than 100% of the radius.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • LCHIEN
              Internet Fact Checker
              • Dec 2002
              • 20847
              • Katy, TX, USA.
              • BT3000 vintage 1999

              #7
              Left the blade off to be sharpened/repaired Tuesday.
              Pickup/dropoff day is Monday every week so I hit the worst case cycle time. Be about 2 weeks before its back.
              Loring in Katy, TX USA
              If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
              BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

              Comment

              • dbhost
                Slow and steady
                • Apr 2008
                • 9180
                • League City, Texas
                • Ryobi BT3100

                #8
                I managed to break a tooth on a D1280X, basically the 80T version of that blade. I was cutting some maple and managed to find a piece of metal embedded in the wood that escaped the sawmill, and was discovered by my blade. That was blade #1 on my old HF 12" slider that is now in a friends shop... Blade #2 got transferred to my Metabo 12" slider with no damage...

                I just chucked the old blade in the recycling and tossed the new one on. Didn't figure it was worth fixing, they are reasonably inexpensive and I had gotten a bunch of use out of the thing... Now I am wondering if I should have kept it and had it fixed...
                Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

                Comment


                • LCHIEN
                  LCHIEN commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I got a new one (D12100X) for $60, overnight.

                  I figured I'll have the old one sharpened and basically fixed for $30 and have a spare blade with 98 or 99 of the original teeth sharp and ready to go.
                  A spare or one to check when I think the blade in the saw is dull.
                  Last edited by LCHIEN; 09-22-2023, 03:09 AM.
              • LCHIEN
                Internet Fact Checker
                • Dec 2002
                • 20847
                • Katy, TX, USA.
                • BT3000 vintage 1999

                #9
                Got the sharpened blade back
                Sharpening place and their price list both said $29 but Hardware store charged me $30, I should have complained.



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                Had black rubber coating protecting all the teeth (I started to peel it off before the pic)

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                Whatever they did they took of all the painted printing that said diablo

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                As it comes from the factory paint job that was still there when I sent it in,
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                They couldn't wash off the laser engraved serial no
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                and they engraved a invoice number on it

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                Teeth look pretty sharp. Had HiATB teeth from the factory, still looks wicked Alt Top Bevel.

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                Guess I'll try in the next few days and see how it cuts and if they straightened the bent tooth right.
                Not too fond of the cosmetic disimprovements but I guess if it cuts OK its a pithy thing to complain about.

                I like to keep my tools original looking. Am I too picky?

                ​​
                Attached Files
                Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-04-2023, 01:40 AM.
                Loring in Katy, TX USA
                If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                Comment

                • LCHIEN
                  Internet Fact Checker
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 20847
                  • Katy, TX, USA.
                  • BT3000 vintage 1999

                  #10
                  Bad news - sharpened blade cuts like crap


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                  The cut at the top was made by my new diablo blade, same model as the sharpened blade. Polished, clean, little tear-out.

                  The lower cut was made by the just sharpened blade. Not a smooth cut and huge amounts of tear-out.

                  I think I need to take it back.
                  Attached Files
                  Loring in Katy, TX USA
                  If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                  BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                  Comment

                  • twistsol
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 2884
                    • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
                    • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

                    #11
                    You should definitely send it back.

                    I recently took a blade to my Ace store who sent it out to a local place to sharpen it, thinking if it worked out well, I could save the round trip shipping to Quinn Saw. The results were similar to, but not quite as bad as yours. The blade seemed sharper but the cut quality had degraded significantly

                    It also looks like their scrubbing ruined the non stick coating on the blade. I'm not sure what they did that removed the coating around rim. In your before pictures with the exception of the broken tooth, your blade looks to be in quite good shape.

                    The heavily used blade below has been sharpened multiple times by Quinn without any of what I would classify as damage shown on your blade. Not that it matters, but they also engrave the blades, but in a much tidier manner.

                    Diablo 10" 30 tooth rip blade after multiple sharpenings.
                    Chr's
                    __________
                    An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
                    A moral man does it.

                    Comment

                    • sweensdv
                      Veteran Member
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 2862
                      • WI
                      • Baileigh TS-1040P-50

                      #12
                      I would definitely return that blade, horrible job. They made your blade unusable. I would say that if they can't fix their mistake they owe you a brand new D12100.
                      _________________________
                      "Have a Great Day, unless you've made other plans"

                      Comment

                      • capncarl
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 3557
                        • Leesburg Georgia USA
                        • SawStop CTS

                        #13
                        As I previous posted in this thread, don’t expect much out of a re-tooth job for this cheap. If it was a jeweler doing it for $100 per tooth you MIGHT get a usable blade, or not.

                        In my previous job we had to do some pretty intensive repairs to cutter and grinder teeth, sprocket repairs, gear rebuilding etc. This was only on equipment used in our factory and never for sale. We employed top machinist, welders and milrights who could repair most anything. I have seen very large gear teeth completely built back by welding and grinding, but this took 100s of hours. To weld on carbide teeth I believe they were brazed or silver soldered on. These carbide bits were held in place with a pair of tweezers while welding. The best repairs that could be expected were a temporary patch until new parts could be ordered and built. This replacement could take many months and might require several more maintenance repairs before the new replacement arrives. None of these repairs would have been “pretty” like you would have expected your $100 saw blade to look like.

                        Saw blades with carbide teeth are built with every tooth welded on the blade and then they are all cut the same with a sharpening machine. These blades cost from $25 to $150 each because they are made in mass, Adding a carbide tooth is doable, but a single tooth replacement should cost more than the entire blade cost.

                        Comment

                        • LCHIEN
                          Internet Fact Checker
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 20847
                          • Katy, TX, USA.
                          • BT3000 vintage 1999

                          #14
                          I talked to the owner, he agreed to redo the blade.
                          He said that any teeth that were broken or bent to the point they stuck out and made a rough cut, would be ground down on the side so that they are not sticking out, as accurately bending a tooth back is risky and difficult.
                          He said that for 100T blade, loss of up to about 7 teeth if that many should still give acceptable performance.
                          I guess I'll find out in a few more days.

                          I think the way I screwed up this blade was cutting an aluminum extrusion. It was a thin extrusion but the blade was HiATB which are very sharply beveled for prescoring the grain and have very fragile pointed teeth.

                          I should have used a TCG triple chip grind...or maybe a FTG.
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                          Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-21-2023, 01:04 AM.
                          Loring in Katy, TX USA
                          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                          Comment

                          • LCHIEN
                            Internet Fact Checker
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 20847
                            • Katy, TX, USA.
                            • BT3000 vintage 1999

                            #15
                            Back from the sharpeners (again). Latest result they fixed the bad tooth on one side but not the other side... getting a really rough cut and splintering on the right side of the blade while the other left side is butter smooth.

                            Apparently they fixed the problem on one side, but not the other, even though I told them it cut roughly on both sides.

                            Talked to the guy, he's refunding my money. I guess neither of us want to deal with it. anymore.
                            Although he told me earlier they can fix minor problems, he now says that they are a sharpening shop, not a blade repair shop.
                            I think I see the bent tooth and he has a point, I damaged the blade (more than I thought) and they were willing to file down one bent tooth but not two.

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                            Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-24-2023, 10:53 PM.
                            Loring in Katy, TX USA
                            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                            Comment


                            • leehljp
                              leehljp commented
                              Editing a comment
                              That is plum disgusting! Beauty and the beast of cuts! That bad cut is absolutely awful!

                            • LCHIEN
                              LCHIEN commented
                              Editing a comment
                              The left side cut is not perfect, either.... my new blade does not tear out the back of the cut like this one does.
                              Anyway, this blade is going in the scrap heap after I take a quick look and see if I can identify the offending tooth that is apparently out of line. One bent tooth a few thousands to one side makes a 100T blade into a 1T blade, effectively.
                              Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-24-2023, 10:49 PM.
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