New shop thoughts. Miter saw

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  • New shop thoughts. Miter saw

    I'm planning my new shop. Unlike my last shop which was all mine, my wife has expressed a STRONG interest to park at least one car in the garage.

    In the upper left corner are 2 stairs leading up to the mudroom. There's a small window looking towards the backyard 90deg to that. I'll probably mount a window AC there. In the upper right corner is an in-swing door that leads to the backyard. On the bottom wall are two large windows on the front of the house. I plan to setup a handtool area in that spot because of the natural light.

    All of my tools are on wheels although I never plan on moving the TS or workbench in front of it. Unlike my old shop, I also don't plan on storing as much wood inside--just what will fit on a wall rack--location TBD. I have to build a storage shed for the riding mower, and there will be room in there for wood storage.

    In my last shop, I had my miter saw on the back wall, but that made breaking down lumber awkward as I would then have to carry it over to the jointer/planer then back over to the TS. I'm thinking about locating the MS towards the front of the shop (garage doors), but I don't like the idea of moving the MS constantly. I've seen a bunch of workbenches with flip up/down MS in them. They look pretty slick. I would need to keep the benchtop clear so I could use the MS, though. My workbench doubles as my assembly area and you know there's always something to be cut down. So having the MS there could be inconvenient. Thoughts on this type of bench? Where do you have your MS in your shop?

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  • #2
    I just showed my wife this picture. She immediately said, can't I park in the other bay instead? It'll be easier for me to move the car out.

    I think it'll be inconvenient for her to cross through my shop area to get into the house, though.

    Comment


    • #3
      reminds me of a story involving (to be PC) an ethnic group known for dutiful boys and persnickity critical mothers.

      On his birthday the parents give him two shirts. He dutifully changes into one and models it for the parents. The mother says immediately, whatsamatta, you didn't like the other one?

      The moral of the story is of course he was doomed before he started... there was no acceptable order in which to try the shirts
      Loring in Katy, TX USA
      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

      Comment


      • atgcpaul
        atgcpaul commented
        Editing a comment
        Ha! I resemble that comment! Pretty sure I fall into that same grouping.

      • nicer20
        nicer20 commented
        Editing a comment
        Well in this case you could have chosen the side in the design to be opposite of what you ultimately wanted ;-)

    • #4
      What country are you in? Are you still in the USA or other country? Right side or left side driving - Which steering wheel side?

      For left side driving, right side steering wheel, it would not be too much distraction to get out in the open space in the middle.
      Hank Lee

      Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

      Comment


      • atgcpaul
        atgcpaul commented
        Editing a comment
        It's for our house in the US. We're moving back this summer.

        Yes, good point about which side. It will be easier for her to get in/out of the car if it's on the right side of the garage.

    • #5
      Originally posted by atgcpaul View Post
      I think it'll be inconvenient for her to cross through my shop area to get into the house, though.
      It depends on how tidy you keep your shop.

      For your original question. I would swap the jointer/planer with the lathe and move the jointer/planer closer to the tablesaw. It will benefit more from being close to the DC and it keeps all your stock prep tools on one side of the shop.
      Chr's
      __________
      An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
      A moral man does it.

      Comment


      • #6
        Interesting...

        Let's see now, this September I will be married 55 years and what I've learned from all those years is that you should have asked your wife first!

        Fortunately, you haven't completed the project and all you have to do is change your illustration.



        CWS
        Last edited by cwsmith; 06-07-2022, 11:21 AM.
        Think it Through Before You Do!

        Comment


        • atgcpaul
          atgcpaul commented
          Editing a comment
          Congratulations!

          Ours is in September, too. Just 21 for us this year.

      • #7
        Originally posted by twistsol View Post

        It depends on how tidy you keep your shop.

        For your original question. I would swap the jointer/planer with the lathe and move the jointer/planer closer to the tablesaw. It will benefit more from being close to the DC and it keeps all your stock prep tools on one side of the shop.
        Let's just say I'm no Rod Kirby when it comes to shop cleanliness, but people can change, right? For work I have to take an annual safety training. You can train people to be safe and hopefully they apply those principals, and you can also engineer safety. I'm going to try to take the latter approach for shop cleanliness by keeping the bulk of the wood out of the shop. In my old shop, that took up a huge chunk of wall space I could have used for other stuff.

        In that picture, I only just placed the lathe there because I remembered I had one. It will probably be on that wall as you suggest and rolled out of the way for parking. I also haven't drawn in the flip cart that has the Ridgid sander and sharpening wheel. And there is so much more stuff I've forgotten about, too.

        I located the J/P there because I also need to run electrical to all my tools, but good point about the DC. It'll be more obvious to me in the fall when all my stuff from storage is delivered to the house. I'm currently working off memory that the DC will fit in that corner. I do prefer having it closer to the outside rather than buried in the back. It was never convenient to empty the bag.

        Comment


        • #8
          Al I can think of when I see your drawing is "Wow that garage is HUGE!" . I have said it many times before, when they built my 2 car garage, they must have used 1980s Toyota Corollas for the cars, and nothing else...

          Can't offer much help aside from stating my miter saw is against the back wall of hte shop closest to the shop door.
          Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

          Comment


          • cwsmith
            cwsmith commented
            Editing a comment
            When my Dad built his garage, attached to the side of the house, I could circle my VW inside, driving in one door, do a U-turn and exit the other. (Man, that was a long time ago, 1965.)

            CWS

          • dbhost

            dbhost
            commented
            Editing a comment
            Now that is a big garage. Mind you I am beyond grateful to have what I have, but the space limitations make me have to think and rethink my tool and materials storage and layout on an almost daily basis. I am still not thrilled with the drill press and sharpening station locations, but I figure I will figure those out in due course.

          • twistsol
            twistsol commented
            Editing a comment
            The "3 car garage" on our new house is 23'6" deep and 30' wide. Smaller in square footage than that properly sized 2 car garage. I had to sell my full size truck because it just plain wouldn't fit. We paid extra for the extended garage.

            The two car attached garage on our last house, designed and built by my dad, was 28' deep and 30' wide. It easily accommodated his 1972 Cadillac Fleetwood with all four doors open and walking room around the font and back of the car with mom's 1969 Buick Electra parked in the 2nd stall. Too bad the ceilings were only 7' high.

        • #9
          How many separate circuits do you think for this shop?

          I've already got 2 switched lights overhead (probably the same circuit), and IIRC there's one outlet in the middle of each wall also probably on the same circuit.

          I'm thinking to add:
          --Two separate 240V circuits for the tools on the left and right side of the shop
          --One 120V, 20A circuit for my DC
          --One 120V, 20A circuit servicing the back wall and left side, and another for the right side
          --One 120V circuit for the window AC

          I've been thinking about getting a wire feed welder, too, but I don't think I need a separate circuit for that.

          I'm also going to need heat. In my last shop I used space heaters and later added a circuit for ceiling-mounted heaters. I think I'll punt on that decision for now.

          Thoughts?

          (PS--I'm planning the wiring now before I'm back because I can buy the conduit and wire locally at 30-50% less here than back in the US and ship it all back with the rest of our stuff. As far as I can tell, it's the same ratings as back in the US)
          Last edited by atgcpaul; 06-12-2022, 09:52 AM.

          Comment


          • #10
            Originally posted by atgcpaul View Post
            How many separate circuits do you think for this shop?

            I've already got 2 switched lights overhead (probably the same circuit), and IIRC there's one outlet in the middle of each wall also probably on the same circuit.

            I'm thinking to add:
            --Two separate 240V circuits for the tools on the left and right side of the shop
            --One 120V, 20A circuit for my DC
            --One 120V, 20A circuit servicing the back wall and left side, and another for the right side
            --One 120V circuit for the window AC

            I've been thinking about getting a wire feed welder, too, but I don't think I need a separate circuit for that.

            I'm also going to need heat. In my last shop I used space heaters and later added a circuit for ceiling-mounted heaters. I think I'll punt on that decision for now.

            Thoughts?

            (PS--I'm planning the wiring now before I'm back because I can buy the conduit and wire locally at 30-50% less here than back in the US and ship it all back with the rest of our stuff. As far as I can tell, it's the same ratings as back in the US)
            I think you need enough circuits for all the stuff that needs to run independently, possibly at the same time, counting the major loads that can't be run fronm the same breaker becasue their combined load would trip the breaker.

            That means the following need their own circuits (considering a one-man shop where one major tool is at use at a time.):
            • table saw/Jointer/miter saw/drill press/bandsaw etc all can share a breaker if the same voltage and will not be run simultaneously (OK for one man shop but not where two would be working) If you have a mix of 240 and 120 V equipment then you need at least one circuit of each
            • Dust collector
            • Miscellaneous lower power stuff - Air cleaner radio/sound, battery chargers, small electric stuff, laptop. If you don't have too much stuff, maybe combine with lighting, or alternately have half the lighting on this so you won't ever be left in the dark by a breaker trip.
            • Air compressor
            • Air conditioning and or space heater
            • Lighting and fans
            • Freezer or fridge in the shop
            High power/current tools that cycle on automatically each need their own circuit That's why fridge, air compressor, air conditioning and heating are needing their own circuit.
            Since you are looking at 5-6 circuit for a serious hobby shop, it would make sense to add a extra for future expansion (like two major tool circuits) if you have the breaker slots available.
            Last edited by LCHIEN; 06-12-2022, 03:30 PM.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment


            • #11
              Originally posted by atgcpaul View Post
              How many separate circuits do you think for this shop?

              I've already got 2 switched lights overhead (probably the same circuit), and IIRC there's one outlet in the middle of each wall also probably on the same circuit.

              I'm thinking to add:
              --Two separate 240V circuits for the tools on the left and right side of the shop
              --One 120V, 20A circuit for my DC
              --One 120V, 20A circuit servicing the back wall and left side, and another for the right side
              --One 120V circuit for the window AC

              I've been thinking about getting a wire feed welder, too, but I don't think I need a separate circuit for that.

              I'm also going to need heat. In my last shop I used space heaters and later added a circuit for ceiling-mounted heaters. I think I'll punt on that decision for now.

              Thoughts?

              (PS--I'm planning the wiring now before I'm back because I can buy the conduit and wire locally at 30-50% less here than back in the US and ship it all back with the rest of our stuff. As far as I can tell, it's the same ratings as back in the US)
              As a refresher, I have the following circuits in MY shop, YMMV but this is what works for me...

              1. Pre existing 20 amp circuit dedicated to ceiling lighting, switched via a Zwave smart switch.
              2. Pre existing 20 amp circuit, most likely the SAME circuit the lighting is on, but not controlled by the switch, where I plug in my chest freezer and Grizzly air cleaner.

              THEN comes the dedicated sub panel.

              60 amp sub panel with the following circuits.
              1. Shared 20 amp circuit with 110v and 220v for air compressor and dust collector. I never run them at the same time so I will never exceed the load. For now both are 110V but that can change easily.
              2. Another shared 110v 220v 20 amp circuit with 4 outlets along the "power wall" This is where the tools connect. I have 2 25ft heavy duty extension cables in "wonder winders" providing 110V power as I have nothing with 220V at this time. The band saw, and lathe stay plugged in as they live on that wall but...
              3. A single 110v 220v 20a circuit that currently has no 220V outlet but the box / breaker will happily support it. This is for my HVACMost notably right now my portable AC, at some point down the road I am planning on a mini split heat pump. As soon as I can figure out how to set it up so that that HOA can't see the outdoor unit and finish insulating the east wall of the shop I will be all over that...

              So what does that mean?

              Anything that is likely to be powered on simultaneously, such as lights, air conditioner, table saw, and dust collector, are all operating on their own circuit and the total draw is well within my ratings.

              It should also be noted the fan in my portable AC is a miserable excuse of a fan and I move air in the shop around to keep the cooled air mixed with the hot air, and moving back around, by placing the portable AC on the north wall, facing southwest at a 45 degree angle, and then a box fan on the water softener at about a 45 degree angle, and finally the Grizzly air cleaner, mounted unsurprisingly at approximately a 45 degree angle. This make the air spin around counter clockwise in the shop, and work its way to get picked back up by the AC and cycled through again. Unfortunately my recent relcocation of the drill press has interfered with that...
              Last edited by dbhost; 06-12-2022, 07:08 PM.
              Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

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              • #12
                I think I got a good start with materials today. The mover comes for a packout survey tomorrow. I hope those 10' long EMTs fit in their crates. If not, couplers aren't that expensive, but what a shame.

                Cherry on top is that the cashier today called me "joven" (young man).

                Comment


                • #13
                  Originally posted by twistsol View Post

                  For your original question. I would ... move the jointer/planer closer to the tablesaw. It will benefit more from being close to the DC and it keeps all your stock prep tools on one side of the shop.
                  I had just about dismissed this suggestion until I watched the video in this FWW link:

                  https://www.finewoodworking.com/proj...t-midsize-shop

                  For those who work out of a garage shop with overhead doors, what direction does your table saw face? Are you feeding lumber towards the main door or away from it? In my last two shops my saw faced the main door. IIRC I had at least 10' in front and 10' behind the blade. My rationale was that I would be safer seeing who was coming and going out the people doors which were also located near the overhead doors. I never worked with the main doors open, though. However, that also meant cutting down bigger pieces like sheet goods was a pain because I'd have to carry them all the way around the outfeed table/bench. It would have been more efficient to cut them up as I entered the shop.

                  If I rotate my saw 180deg from how I depicted it above, I could permanently park my J/P at the far end of my TS side table. I NEVER cut stock that wide but was using that side for my router table which I can move. It's even less important now that I use a tracksaw to break down sheet goods. I would have to figure out how to run electric to that "island" location because I don't want to trip over conduit, but I think I have an idea.

                  I also need to check if the openers has a lockout feature so my wife doesn't startle me with the door while I have my back to it. We have windows on top so I can see out.
                  Last edited by atgcpaul; 06-13-2022, 08:06 PM.

                  Comment


                  • LCHIEN
                    LCHIEN commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Feeding rips towards the big garage door. If I have a really long piece to rip I open the garage door

                • #14
                  I have several power tools more or less lined up in a row. Two dust collection drops from the ceiling serve them. Years ago, the Borg sold a long and beefy extension cord that had outlets spaced every 6 feet or so rather than being a long cord with 3 outlets at the far end. That works wonders in my shop: one dust collection drop is close to a wall and power outlet so the extension cord runs from the outlet, over to the pipe drop, and is zip-tied in place. That puts an outlet near a couple tools and at shoulder height - not at floor level. The cord then runs up the dust pipe, to the ceiling, across a ceiling joist, and down the other dust collection drop. That puts two outlets near that bundle of tools. Very convenient. Unplugging the extension cord from the wall guarantees all of those tools are unplugged each night; and obviously I can unplug each tool individually for blade/bit changes. The Borg doesn't sell that cord any longer... but similar cords are available elsewhere. Do a web search on "power stringer" for examples.

                  The outlets are 15 amp outlets (they don't have the "T" slot that identifies 20 amp outlets) but the wire itself is heavy gauge wire so the power cord can easily handle whatever tool I plug into it. Many extension cords use smaller gauge wire which will create excess electrical power losses when a beefy tool is plugged into it... look for 12 gauge or heavier wire.

                  This example on Amazon is similar to what I am using: Amazon multi-outlet power string cord with 12 gauge wire
                  Such multi-outlet extension cords are marketed to the video and audio industry as a way to plug in multiple amplifiers, lights, etc. in temporary stages.

                  mpc
                  Last edited by mpc; 06-13-2022, 09:50 PM.

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                  • #15
                    I have a stringer cord like that with 3 single outlet drops on 12 ga. wire and lighted outlets. About 6 or 8 ft apart. Very useful. Plugged into a ceiling outlet it powers the BT3 and router table and I think the grinder.
                    Loring in Katy, TX USA
                    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

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