Shop-vac network - clear flex or hard pipe?

[milanuk]

Hello all,

After a recent bit of time in the shop, I came to the conclusion that I'm tired of dragging my Ridgid 14-gallon shop-vac around. I'd like to be able to use some sort of ducting network similar to what I see people using with full-fledged dust collector systems.

Before anyone goes down that path, I am *NOT* planning on this being a substitute for a 'real' DC system - at some point this year I plan on getting a decent sized DC for the stationary tools that really need it - table saw, planer, jointer, band saw, miter saw, etc.

In the interim, I want something where I don't have to drag all over the place - something that I can open a port and use the vacuum over the general work bench, or over the 'wood'-working bench, for the hand-held router, and other bench top tools. It will have a pre-separator in-line before the vac - I hate changing bags on the vac as much as the next person

I've been looking at some of the setups available... I really like this one (from over on Sawmill Creek), and it's just about what I had in mind:



Shop-Vac used to sell something like that, and supposedly Home Depot still does... but it ain't cheap and would have to be a special order as the local store doesn't stock anything like that. I've been looking at Rockler's 2-1/2" DC starter kit - somewhat cheaper than the Ridgid kit but doesn't come with any hose or pipe. The benefit is that it may be more expandable to fit my shop setup, and they also have 10 ft sections of clear flex tube available.

For anyone with experience with this type of setup...

a) would you go with clear flex for ease of routing or hard pipe for better air flow?

b) how important do you think it really is to have the clear pipe, vs. making something from 2" S&D pipe? I ask primarily because thats what my house central vac system uses, fed by... a Sears shop-vac in my basement shop. Granted, it's picking up dust, dirt, pet hair, that sort of thing - not big fluffy wood chips - and the occasional screw or nail - bulkier stuff that can get stuck.

Thanks,

Monte

[LCHIEN]

flex hose actually has a large amount of restriction to flow compared to hard pipe because of the roughness of the wall. To get maximum airflow with a shop vac or a DC, use hard pipe if you can.

[milanuk]

Thats what I'd heard... didn't know if it was as big a hit to the system with the high suction/ low air flow of a shop-vac as it was to the low suction/ high air flow design of a dust collector.

Also, I was thinking in terms of the clear pipe (from Rockler) only being available in 36" sticks (requiring a fair number of couplers, adding both cost and more losses), vs. 10' sections of the clear flex hose. If I could do the whole thing with S&D pipe it'd probably be a whole lot cheaper, plus I could get the parts locally - but then there's the bit about blockages...

[cgallery]

I started with all black flexible hose, tees, blast gates, etc. It worked well, seldomly clogged, etc.

I fell into a great deal on the Rockler 2.5" clear kit and purchased two. I replaced much of my black hose w/ the clear hard stuff and I'd have to say it works even better.

[LarryG]

Two shops ago, I built a shop-vac-powered 2" DC sub-network using one of the clear plastic pipe kits. Mine came from Lee Valley (no longer available, I don't think) but was generally similar to what other vendors sell. IIRC it included 10 sections of the 36" long pipe, five blast gates, and all the necessary couplers.

It worked very well ... I used it to plumb some benchtop tools that were on a side of the shop that the main DC system couldn't reach, due to low headroom. Two of the five blast gates doubled as connection points for the shop vac's floor wand, for general clean-up. The network used up virtually all of the included tubing and fittings -- in fact as I recall, I bought a few extra fittings in order to route the tubing the way I wanted it. I also cut some of the tubing into sections as little as about six inches long. If there was a performance hit due to all the pieces and fittings, it wasn't noticeable.

I never had any problems with blockages per se, but I did notice that when I opened a given blast gate, a small amount of sawdust would tend to collect in the side of BG fitting that was upstream of the air flow direction; that is, farther away from the shop vac. Something to do with how the air swirled around inside the fitting, apparently. It never came close to filling the cross-section of the pipe, however, so it wasn't anything I worried about. Momentarily opening the next BG along the line would clear the accumulation instantly.

[milanuk]

Awesome, Larry!

That LV kit actually looks like it might be the ticket - more length of pipe and more gates and couplings.

My goal this year (as far as the shop) is to get some sort of shop vac network setup, a shop air network plumbed in (looking at those RapidAir setups - or HF equiv.), and hopefully a 50-760 DC to roll-around to the stationary tools. Plumbing it in permanent is gonna come later.

[dbhost]

If you want the shop vac Sawdust collection system, I have taken mine out... I would consider selling it (most of the parts for 2 full kits) cheap just to get it out of my attic...

If I had to do it over again, I would put the planer and jointer closer to the port closest to the vac, and do NOT use the 90s... They are too tight.

Honestly, a true DC works so much better it's not even funny...

[milanuk]

I understand for the big stuff a 'real' DC works better... but I was under the impression that getting a DC system set up doesn't necessarily mean 'throw out the shop vac'; that some things like hand-held tools with dust shrouds, general shop cleanup, etc. worked better with the high suction/ low flow of a shop-vac. Is that incorrect? As mentioned, I'm not intending to use this in lieu of a proper DC system, but as a precursor and then in addition to having a full-sized dust collector.

PM or email me a price for what you want for that shop-vac network shipped to 98801.

[steve-norrell]

I used the 2 1/2 kits for a couple of years with good results. Unless the ShopVac is attached directly to the tool, the smooth-side clear pipes will give much better results and the extra cost of the couplers are well worth the cost.

A few of suggestions:

1. If budget allows, get a bigger ShopVac. I used a 20 gal. machine for dust collecting, but still found lots of use for the older 16 gal. model.

2. Use 'dry wall' rated bags in the ShopVac. The regular bags do not trap the finer particles and the vac will do a pretty good job of spreading them around the shop. If you have any kind of sensitivity to wood dust, the dry wall bags should be considered essential.

3. Again, if budget allows, one of those Thein-type separators that fit on five-gallon paint cans will go a long way to reducing the number of time you have to change the bags.

Good luck and regards, Steve.

[dbhost]

I understand for the big stuff a 'real' DC works better... but I was under the impression that getting a DC system set up doesn't necessarily mean 'throw out the shop vac'; that some things like hand-held tools with dust shrouds, general shop cleanup, etc. worked better with the high suction/ low flow of a shop-vac. Is that incorrect? As mentioned, I'm not intending to use this in lieu of a proper DC system, but as a precursor and then in addition to having a full-sized dust collector.

PM or email me a price for what you want for that shop-vac network shipped to 98801.

No it doesn't mean toss out the shop vac. However my vac, and Thien separator are located such that one 7' hose reaches everything I want to with the vac... I use it exclusively for hand tools like sanders, etc... and for my Shark Guard. And of course with the 20' hose for shop cleanup... I simply don't need two sets of plumbing...

[cgallery]

If you already have DC piping, you can use that with your shop vac.

Just connect both your DC and shop vac to the existing piping. You'll need a blast gate in front of each.

When you want to use the DC, open that blast gate and the gate at your tool. When you want to use the shop vac, open the shop vac gate and the gate at the tool.

The shop vac won't have the CFM to clear the larger (4" to 6") DC piping. But once you turn the DC back on it will clear the pipe.

[milanuk]

Okay...

I don't have a dust collector yet... so why would I already have DC piping?

I do use a drywall bag plus a Cleanstream filter plus a Thien separator on my shop-vac.

I might consider a bigger unit - I had been actually considering getting a *smaller* unit for the times when the wife/kids come down and swipe my shop-vac and completely discombobulate the hoses and anything else they might have been attached to - and filling up the bags with all kinds of junk. I figured one small shop-vac in the garage dedicated to general purpose use might keep them from raiding the shop. Putting a bigger unit downstairs for the shop-vac network and sticking the big orange Ridgid up in the garage might work also.

dbhost... still waiting on a price for that piping you want to get rid of...

[cgallery]

I don't have a dust collector yet... so why would I already have DC piping?

Apologies. You had mentioned that the need for a SV still existed if you have a DC, which caused me to jump to a conclusion.

[Brian G]

I use one set of the Shop-Vac branded collection system for my drill press and two bench top sanders (belt/disk and oscillating spindle). I also use it for general vac. purposes with a 20 gal. 6 HP Shop Vac. That's in addition to a 4" DC system with a HF DC.

I have no problems pulling dust up 8' from floor to ceiling, across 12' of joists, and back down to the Shop Vac.

I used to use 2" ABS before I bought the Shop-Vac system. It worked fine, except that connecting to hose and collection fittings was a cobble job.