Wiring The Shop -A Surprise

[crokett]

I am planning the electrical run to my shop. The panel in the shop is rated at 100A. Originally I was planning to run 2-2-4-6Al at 90A since I won't come close to 100A ever. I built a quickie load calculator and worst case having all my tools running to the nameplate rating I came up with 54A used - that is all lights on, DC, Shop Vac, Saw, Planer, Jointer, pool, shed, etc all at the same time and all fully loaded. So obviously I don't need 90A. However, checking prices and 2-2-4-6Al is $1.20/foot. #6 copper to feed 60A is $.60/ft so three runs is 1.80/ft and that doesn't include the ground wire. So now I am leaning towards just running the 90A. I would save enough on the Al to run it in conduit and buy the 90A breaker.

[master53yoda]

what is the price on 4-4-6-8 al and 60 amp service

[crokett]

Good question. I checked on this earlier and it is the same, more or less. No one here sells bundled 4-4-6-8 nor do they carry #6 or #8 Al. #4Al is $.20/foot and #8cu green is #.32/foot so 4-4-4Al+8cu is $.92 foot but that requires conduit. The 2-2-4-6 is direct burial. Throwing in the cost of conduit and fittings and I am right back to the cost of the 2-2-4-6. Plus running the larger is easier - no pulls through conduit. The only difference then is the cost of the breaker. Of course I could just install a 60A breaker. However IMO the 90A is worth the difference in breaker price.

[master53yoda]

might as well go with the 90A

[cabinetman]

I don't know about the codes or requirements in your area, but here to get a permit a drawing of sorts showing the existing and proposed work to be done is needed. With laying out a new shop I was wondering if you did drawings showing the electrical?

With the consultations you've had with the inspector and an electrician, it seems that the decisions on details like wire sizes, type, and connections would be very easy to address with a drawing or even a sketch.
.

[crokett]

Cabman, the question isn't the wire size as much as it is what I am willing to pay for. I don't -need- 90A but it turns out I can get it for as much as it would cost to run 60A, so I will. Drawings are not needed for permits here, at least for electrical work. They are for building permits.

[tseavoy]

It appears that you have zeroed in on the best solution. I believe that 2 ga aluminum will have less voltage drop than 4 ga copper and is cheaper.
Around where I live the norm is that if you can do the job unnoticed you don't need a permit. My experience with the state electrical inspectors has not been good, ranging from incompetence to those looking for a gotcha. The journeymen and master electricians have much more on the ball, but of course cannot work without a permit. I admit my shop would not pass inspection, but it has worked for 25 years with no problem. I would like to have a heavier line feeding it, but that involves tearing up the yard and I guess I can live with it the way it is.

Tom on Marrowstone

God, let me be the man my dog thinks I am

[crokett]

T I will probably pull a permit for this. I can do the work unnoticed but when I do the carport room addition that will require a permit. The inspector will be the same as the one for my panel upgrade and it will be obvious that I just did the shop power. I'm not afraid of not passing - I know the requirements for this much better than I did for my panel upgrade. The only thing I need to ask the inspector is if there is a rough-in before the final or can I do the whole job and then have him come out and inspect it.

[phi1l]

I think the rule of thumb is figure out what all you could possibly need & double it for future expansion. You never know when someone might drop a 4 ft' wide belt sander for doing table tops in one pass in your lap.

[cabinetman]

I think the rule of thumb is figure out what all you could possibly need & double it for future expansion. You never know when someone might drop a 4 ft' wide belt sander for doing table tops in one pass in your lap.

Floor space could be as much of a problem as the electrical.
.

[crokett]

Floor space could be as much of a problem as the electrical.
.

I almost said that was an easy fix - I read 'space' as 'specs'. It is 6:30 AM here and I haven't had coffee yet though.

[pelligrini]

T I will probably pull a permit for this. I can do the work unnoticed but when I do the carport room addition that will require a permit. The inspector will be the same as the one for my panel upgrade and it will be obvious that I just did the shop power. I'm not afraid of not passing - I know the requirements for this much better than I did for my panel upgrade. The only thing I need to ask the inspector is if there is a rough-in before the final or can I do the whole job and then have him come out and inspect it.

Haven't you covered it already? Around here on new construction and remodels there's an inspection before it is covered.

[crokett]

Haven't you covered it already? Around here on new construction and remodels there's an inspection before it is covered.

The work I am permitting now isn't covered. The shop is wired but I haven't pulled the service yet.

[crokett]

Well I ended up with 2-2-2-4 for only a couple cents more per foot than the wire I planned on. Had a 10% off coupon for Lowes. Called HD and they beat the price so I got the wire there.