accesory plate sits low

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  • sloboataz
    Forum Newbie
    • Nov 2021
    • 6
    • AZ high country
    • BT3000

    accesory plate sits low

    I have been tired of dealing with my 'twenty something' year old Craftsman saw and started looking through the classifieds. BT3000...what the heck is that? A little research turned into a lot of research, including finding you folks, and I decided to take the plunge, risking every bit of $50. Long story short, I've ordered a few odds and ends, effectively tripling the cost!!! and been doing some fitting and it seems the accessory table sits about 3/32 low at the front next to the main table. The back end is nearly flush. I've played with the rails, but there isn't enough play. The rails are level with the main table. The only option I see, considering the narrow channel the table has, is to build the slot up with some JB weld and file it to the correct height. The saw runs good, good blade with no run out or wobble. Everything works, beyond a few broken plastic pieces that are on the way. Any thoughts would be appreciated and thanks for letting me join. I did read the FAQs and several discussion pages, but the problem doesn't seen to be endemic.
  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20914
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    #2
    The rail mounting fasteners have a little play. you can put one corner up or down a little and then tighten the lever that locks the rails in place.

    The other way is to Just put some easy sliding shim material under the auxiliary table. where it sits on the rails. Thin strips of HDPE plastic, for example.

    Welcome to the forum, by the way.

    P.S. I was hasty.

    The play is much smaller than 3/32" which is almost 0.1"

    The shimming suggestion is for the SMT.

    Sorry, I haven't thought about these things for quite a while. More suggestions in post #6 of this thread.
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-28-2021, 04:01 AM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

    Comment

    • sloboataz
      Forum Newbie
      • Nov 2021
      • 6
      • AZ high country
      • BT3000

      #3
      Thanks for the welcome. The rails were the obvious first thing to check, but there isn't much clearance on the bosses for adjustment. Certainly not 3/32. The other issue is the depth of the slot that sits on the rail. It's not very deep. I'll keep sitting and staring at it and something will come to mind if someone else doesn't have a fix. I've already found a couple of fixes here and ordered new sliders from one of the members. In closing, I've been on the 10 west of Houston more times than I ever wanted to be. I drove trucks all my life and my wife and I lived up in Mansfield for a few years many, many moons ago.

      Comment

      • Black walnut
        Administrator
        • Aug 2015
        • 5438
        • BT3K

        #4
        3/32" is a bunch. Triple check that you have the front and rear rail installed correctly.
        just another brick in the wall...

        Boycott McAfee. They placed an unresponsive popup on my pc.

        Comment

        • mpc
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2005
          • 979
          • Cypress, CA, USA.
          • BT3000 orig 13amp model

          #5
          Originally posted by sloboataz
          The rails are level with the main table
          This does not make sense to me. The top of the front rail should be about 1 inch below the work surface of the saw. Look at the profile of the front rail: one side is significantly larger than the other sides; the rail mounts with this large side on the bottom, parallel to the floor. The angled/beveled surface should face upwards and forwards - facing your eyeballs as this is where the inch measurement stick-on tape is supposed to be. The rear/back rail is more-or-less rectangular in shape and mounts with the long axis of the rectangle against the back face of the saw.

          The first attached picture is the front rail mounted to my saw. You can just make out the accessory table front/right corner sitting on it, next to the plywood work surface I added to my saw. The pic was created to show my wood+aluminum "L" bracket bits that screws inside the rail to support a rail extension... so ignore that stick of wood for now. And the plywood piece is out-of-position in this picture; it is normally flush to the accessory table rather than sitting on it... it's out of position in this picture because the extension rail was removed to show that wood+aluminum "L" bracket for a different post on this site.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	Home_Made_Rail_Insert_2465.jpg Views:	0 Size:	485.5 KB ID:	846407



          This picture shows the end profile of the rear rail; the body of the saw is on the left side of the picture. Ignore the black metal piece on the underside of the rail... that's a support bracket for an add-on thing on my BT3.
          Do note however the foot tabs on the back/bottom edge of the accessory table: they slip into the upper groove of the rear rail; the accessory table is the overexposed thing at the very top/left corner of the picture.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	Accessory_Bracket_Installed_1440.jpg Views:	0 Size:	64.8 KB ID:	846408

          And let's make sure we are using the same terminology for the various saw parts:
          "Accessory table" is the simple aluminum "wing" that has a hole near the center of it. It mounts with the plastic lever towards the front of the saw; that lever controls the clamp that grips the front rail.
          "Sliding Miter Table" aka "SMT" is the other "wing" part that slides fore/aft and supports the miter fence. It is really two major pieces: the ribbed table-top work surface that slides, and the aluminum track piece that the table top part slides on. There are a pair of bars screwed to the track piece that in turn clamp to the table saw fence rail pieces. Shim material between these bars and the track piece adjust the overall height of the SMT work surface. The factory manual has you shim so the SMT work surface is slightly higher than the main table top work surface; that way work pieces on the SMT do not drag across the main table. Many folks though make the surfaces the same height instead; similar to how most table saw wings are set.

          This is an older picture of my BT3000, before I extended the rails as in the prior pics. You can see how the front and rear rails are oriented and that there is an inch or so between the top of the front rail and the work surface of the saw. The SMT is on the far left (without the miter fence), the accessory table is on the far right with a shop-made melamine spacer between the accessory table and main saw table in this pic. And my customized base. BT3's had several different bases over the years; the early ones had side panels with a large opening as in this pic; later models had side panels with only a mail slot opening... so my tall but shallow side storage compartments would be impossible on the later stands. BT3100s came with "splayed leg" stands, not box shaped ones like the one in my pic. The black pipes are handles for moving the saw around - wheelbarrow style; an idea originated by another sawdustzone.org member. The slide left, into the open "U" bolt, for storage.


          Click image for larger version  Name:	Basic_saw_0129.jpg Views:	0 Size:	133.7 KB ID:	846409

          mpc
          Last edited by mpc; 11-28-2021, 01:29 AM.

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20914
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #6
            First of all, when I suggested shimming the table I was thinking about the SMT - sliding miter table. As MPC described.

            Lets make sure we are talking about the same thing:

            The auxiliary table is the one with the hole for mounting the router if desired, or just used as a support. Is that what you are talking about when you say accessory table?

            Next you say the rail is level with the main table. Do you mean parallel? Because it is not level with the main table but sits below by about an inch as MPC said.

            People have had problems with rail height - there are 8 ways to attach the rails to the saw body and only one is correct... all combinations of front to back and one or the other side upside down swapping L&R and F to B.. Are you 100% sure the rails are on correctly? As shown below.


            Click image for larger version  Name:	BT3000 Front and rear rail Profiles.jpg Views:	0 Size:	75.8 KB ID:	846411
            or as viewed from the right:
            Click image for larger version  Name:	reversed rail view.png Views:	0 Size:	170.1 KB ID:	846412

            If the rail mounts to the saw body and the Aux table literally sits on the rail and is very much constrained to the right height. Even between BT3000 and BT3100.

            Click image for larger version

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            Do you have the problem when you put the Aux table to the right and to the left of the main table or just on one side???

            So, answer the four questions above.

            I really don't think modifying the saw with JB Weld as you suggest is the way to fix this problem as 100's of thousands of these saws have been manufactured and built and used.
            Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-28-2021, 03:43 AM.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • Black walnut
              Administrator
              • Aug 2015
              • 5438
              • BT3K

              #7
              Once you have checked to make sure your rails match the great and clear pics both MPC and loring have posted.If you still have an issue with things sitting too low turn the t-nuts that attach the rails a quarter turn. I seem to recollect that has been an issue in the past.
              just another brick in the wall...

              Boycott McAfee. They placed an unresponsive popup on my pc.

              Comment

              • sloboataz
                Forum Newbie
                • Nov 2021
                • 6
                • AZ high country
                • BT3000

                #8
                Well...this is an embarrassing way to join a forum. You can't put the table on wrong, lip at one end, slot at the other. The bosses the rails slide on limit the adjustment severely. And I can tell the difference between the table and the SMT, which I never mentioned. When I said the rails were level with the saw table, I should have said in the same plane. I didn't mean equal in height, obviously. I did get one useful piece of advice, that should have been obvious but I am new to the saw...does it work on the other side? So, I tried it and yes, dead level. I used a piece of paper under a level to check. When I put it back on the right side, it was perfectly level too. Even at the end of the rails. I got no idea. I didn't change a thing. And there is only one way to put the table on right and I couldn't repeat the condition from last night. So, thanks for the posts and my apologies for wasting the forum's time. Black Walnut, I'll be using your SMT guide when my new sliders get here and a couple other parts to be picked up and I'll be ready to go. Thanks again.

                Comment

                • LCHIEN
                  Internet Fact Checker
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 20914
                  • Katy, TX, USA.
                  • BT3000 vintage 1999

                  #9
                  No problem sloboataz. We all do odd or embarrassing things.

                  I have had 20 year of enjoyment and satisfaction from my saw. I don't have to adjust it often and its good to go back in and think about those things that work for us.
                  Its a pleasure for me to share my knowledge with others so that they may enjoy their BT3, too.

                  Even just one hint that remotely helped is good enough for me. Glad you got it squared away, so to speak.

                  I have two auxiliary tables, bought a BT3100 Aux table to fill in the blank area.

                  Please stick around and share your experiences with us.

                  Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-28-2021, 05:07 PM.
                  Loring in Katy, TX USA
                  If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                  BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                  Comment

                  • sloboataz
                    Forum Newbie
                    • Nov 2021
                    • 6
                    • AZ high country
                    • BT3000

                    #10
                    The pieces that the rails slide on are 1"x1 1/8". Have to go a half turn. I learned that early on. Black Walnut, reading your article on servicing the SMT. "Turn the sliders around to the side that isn't worn"...how simple is that? I did a couple and it tightened that side right up. As I think I said earlier, I have a set coming from the member here that makes them, but this trick should have been obvious. I also liked the idea of lock nuts on the adjusters. Most of the parts I ordered are here, just have to pick them up and hopefully be up and running.Fun thing, there's a BT3x for sale in East Phoenix on CL. Looks very clean and complete with a jig saw/router mount kit new in the box. Asking three and a half.

                    Comment

                    • LCHIEN
                      Internet Fact Checker
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 20914
                      • Katy, TX, USA.
                      • BT3000 vintage 1999

                      #11
                      if you ever need to you can make those small aluminum plates that the rails mount on quite easily.

                      I bought some 1/8th" thick aluminum bar that was 1" (quite common)

                      You can cut the 1" into multiple pieces 1-1/8" wide and then drill and tap (easy operation in aluminum, tools cheap) Even cutting aluminum is easy, I use my woodworking blades on a miter saw. But theoretically a table saw and miter fence will do an equally good job. Aluminum is a soft metal and machines easily with woodworking tools. But you can also use a hacksaw and file for fine adjustment if you are squeamish about using your wood tools on it.

                      cut into uncritcally long pieces. I used 8" long pieces to join rails to make them longer.

                      The channel they slide into is ~1/32" over 1" And just over 1/8" wide.
                      Last edited by LCHIEN; 11-29-2021, 03:09 AM.
                      Loring in Katy, TX USA
                      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                      Comment

                      • sloboataz
                        Forum Newbie
                        • Nov 2021
                        • 6
                        • AZ high country
                        • BT3000

                        #12
                        LCHIEN, I thought about that, fine threads would give more precise adjustment and maybe go to one inch square for the same reason, but I was concerned about the wear with aluminum since hardness options are shall we say...limited..at the box stores and it's 3 1/2 hours to the nearest metal supply. While I don't have my big garage and all my metal working 'stuff' anymore, mild steel is easy to find here in 1/8" and easy to work. You're idea for extending the rails is interesting, I was wondering what would work if I decided to go that way. Unfortunately, I've downsized from a three bay garage to 26' of a 40' container, so going bigger isn't really an option now. The other 14' are my utility room (off grid) and reloading area. To say I'm limited on space would be generous. I built two 2x4 work benches that I use for in feed and out feed and assembly. And they will have to be raised a couple inches to match the BTX. Right now, getting the saw working accurately so I can sell my other one and get the room back, is my main concern. With the info, and help, here, I am feeling optimistic!

                        Comment

                        • LCHIEN
                          Internet Fact Checker
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 20914
                          • Katy, TX, USA.
                          • BT3000 vintage 1999

                          #13
                          On extending the rails... I made 18" extensions I can add easily when I need them in my crowded shop.


                          Click image for larger version

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                          Click image for larger version Name: BT3000 Front and rear rail Profiles.jpg Views: 0 Size: 75.8 KB ID: 844883 (filedata/fetch?id=844883&d=16289576
                          Loring in Katy, TX USA
                          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                          Comment

                          • dbhost
                            Slow and steady
                            • Apr 2008
                            • 9209
                            • League City, Texas
                            • Ryobi BT3100

                            #14
                            Originally posted by mpc

                            This does not make sense to me. The top of the front rail should be about 1 inch below the work surface of the saw. Look at the profile of the front rail: one side is significantly larger than the other sides; the rail mounts with this large side on the bottom, parallel to the floor. The angled/beveled surface should face upwards and forwards - facing your eyeballs as this is where the inch measurement stick-on tape is supposed to be. The rear/back rail is more-or-less rectangular in shape and mounts with the long axis of the rectangle against the back face of the saw.

                            The first attached picture is the front rail mounted to my saw. You can just make out the accessory table front/right corner sitting on it, next to the plywood work surface I added to my saw. The pic was created to show my wood+aluminum "L" bracket bits that screws inside the rail to support a rail extension... so ignore that stick of wood for now. And the plywood piece is out-of-position in this picture; it is normally flush to the accessory table rather than sitting on it... it's out of position in this picture because the extension rail was removed to show that wood+aluminum "L" bracket for a different post on this site.

                            Click image for larger version Name:	Home_Made_Rail_Insert_2465.jpg Views:	0 Size:	485.5 KB ID:	846407



                            This picture shows the end profile of the rear rail; the body of the saw is on the left side of the picture. Ignore the black metal piece on the underside of the rail... that's a support bracket for an add-on thing on my BT3.
                            Do note however the foot tabs on the back/bottom edge of the accessory table: they slip into the upper groove of the rear rail; the accessory table is the overexposed thing at the very top/left corner of the picture.

                            Click image for larger version Name:	Accessory_Bracket_Installed_1440.jpg Views:	0 Size:	64.8 KB ID:	846408

                            And let's make sure we are using the same terminology for the various saw parts:
                            "Accessory table" is the simple aluminum "wing" that has a hole near the center of it. It mounts with the plastic lever towards the front of the saw; that lever controls the clamp that grips the front rail.
                            "Sliding Miter Table" aka "SMT" is the other "wing" part that slides fore/aft and supports the miter fence. It is really two major pieces: the ribbed table-top work surface that slides, and the aluminum track piece that the table top part slides on. There are a pair of bars screwed to the track piece that in turn clamp to the table saw fence rail pieces. Shim material between these bars and the track piece adjust the overall height of the SMT work surface. The factory manual has you shim so the SMT work surface is slightly higher than the main table top work surface; that way work pieces on the SMT do not drag across the main table. Many folks though make the surfaces the same height instead; similar to how most table saw wings are set.

                            This is an older picture of my BT3000, before I extended the rails as in the prior pics. You can see how the front and rear rails are oriented and that there is an inch or so between the top of the front rail and the work surface of the saw. The SMT is on the far left (without the miter fence), the accessory table is on the far right with a shop-made melamine spacer between the accessory table and main saw table in this pic. And my customized base. BT3's had several different bases over the years; the early ones had side panels with a large opening as in this pic; later models had side panels with only a mail slot opening... so my tall but shallow side storage compartments would be impossible on the later stands. BT3100s came with "splayed leg" stands, not box shaped ones like the one in my pic. The black pipes are handles for moving the saw around - wheelbarrow style; an idea originated by another sawdustzone.org member. The slide left, into the open "U" bolt, for storage.


                            Click image for larger version Name:	Basic_saw_0129.jpg Views:	0 Size:	133.7 KB ID:	846409

                            mpc
                            The later BT3100 splayed leg base is one of the reasosn so many of us go ahead and build base cabinets for our saws, Those early stands / bases were so easy to modify where the newer ones just need to go...
                            Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

                            Comment

                            • leehljp
                              Just me
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 8429
                              • Tunica, MS
                              • BT3000/3100

                              #15
                              Welcome sloboataz! Glad you got some help and this worked out for you. And I think we all have had things get out to whack with a tool or two and then couldn't duplicate it again later.
                              Hank Lee

                              Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                              Comment

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