BT3000 had for years, the blade is now shifting left and right!

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  • JLPicard
    Forum Newbie
    • Jan 2021
    • 16

    BT3000 had for years, the blade is now shifting left and right!

    With my saw completely unplugged (of course) and my blade raised, I can move my blade maybe 1/32 in and out (left and right). Something's obviously worn, any advice?

    It seems like the shims are worn, that's where the slop is, I can still see the 'ears' on from the top, they are original to the saw, maybe they are about to go...
    Last edited by JLPicard; 01-24-2021, 03:13 PM.
  • Black walnut
    Administrator
    • Aug 2015
    • 5451
    • BT3K

    #2
    Shims don't wear. My guess is the shim set screws might be out of adjustment.
    just another brick in the wall...

    Boycott McAfee. They placed an unresponsive popup on my pc.

    Comment

    • JLPicard
      Forum Newbie
      • Jan 2021
      • 16

      #3
      Originally posted by Black walnut
      Shims don't wear. My guess is the shim set screws might be out of adjustment.
      Thanks for reply. I took the side panel off to have access to the X6 PHILLIPS screws involved with the aluminum bracket/shims installation. The X4 PHILLIPS I have taken out and reinstalled one at a time, they are as tight as my hand can possibly get them without risking a strip out of the heads. I may be able to tighten them further with my battery hammer drill. My question is what 'adjustment' are you referring to? These X4 seem to be as tight as possible. The X2 that are closest to the arbor I have not messed with. On the side of the aluminum casting that the shims ride on, I can still see the original casting machining marks so there isn't any wear on THIS side that I can see, the shims I can see the top tabs and the bottom tabs, so they are still in place. IT APPEARS as if the slop is more pronounced when the motor assy is lowered to the bottom than it is on the top, but could just be my imagination. Am I seeing something that has always been there I am just now noticing it?

      I found the adjustment after I posted this, they are TORX not the PHILLIPS mounting screws, just sayin....
      Last edited by JLPicard; 01-27-2021, 09:01 PM. Reason: Further elaboration

      Comment

      • JLPicard
        Forum Newbie
        • Jan 2021
        • 16

        #4
        Found it, they were packed with sawdust, go figure. X4 tiny torx set screws that push on the SS Shims to give it that 'fitment' I was looking for, setting those a teensy tiny bit took all the slop out. I think I am going to back them all the way out and put some thread sealer on em.

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20983
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #5
          1/32" shift? that's .030" or so. 1/4th the width of a normal blade, 1/3 the width of a thin kerf that originally same with the saw.

          You didn't say which you had... the thin kerf is of course more flexible.
          You also didn't say how hard you pushed.

          Is it shifting or deflecting? Or even blade wobble (dirt or sawdust between the spacers or maybe a not perfectly flat blade).

          I'm going to say I can deflect my blade a bit (0.030" is very small) just my pushing on it. I Did not try it today.
          And of course spinning 5000 RPM tends to straighten it up with centrifugal force.

          Is it possible you are overthinking it?
          Last edited by LCHIEN; 01-25-2021, 10:26 PM.
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • nicer20
            Established Member
            • Sep 2007
            • 365
            • Dublin, CA
            • BT3100

            #6
            Originally posted by JLPicard
            Found it, they were packed with sawdust, go figure. X4 tiny torx set screws that push on the SS Shims to give it that 'fitment' I was looking for, setting those a teensy tiny bit took all the slop out. I think I am going to back them all the way out and put some thread sealer on em.
            I am having the other problem of having difficulty raising & lowering the blade. Could it be possible that I have these X4 Tiny Torx screws too tight??

            @JLPicard: Can you please post a picture so that I can locate these on my saw. Thanks in advance.

            - NG

            Comment

            • JLPicard
              Forum Newbie
              • Jan 2021
              • 16

              #7
              I can post a pic tomorrow. It wasn't a 'deflection' it was slop movement in the entire mechanism. I could hear it 'clunking', a metal to metal clunking sound movement. This is sound could be heard (I fixed it today by adjusting the Torx set screws) whether a blade was on or not. With the covers off, and the blade removed, I could shift the mechanism by approx. the amt. I described. No, I didn't measure it, just eyeballed it, but I could actually SEE it moving and I estimate by that much. Once I discovered the torx set screws I went through the process of removing them one by one, cleaning them of all sawdust, reinstalled by a few threads, put a drop of medium thread sealer on them, seating them gently against the shims, then backing off 1/8 turn as I found described. I then lubricated the shim path with a drop or two of Moly-based Liqui Moly 2019 MoS2 Anti-Friction Gear Lubricant. I then moved the assembly up and down a half dozen times noting smooth movement with no binding and no slop at the top of the span or at the bottom. I then reinstalled all covers, and recalibrated my rails, fence and miter table.

              Comment

              • JLPicard
                Forum Newbie
                • Jan 2021
                • 16

                #8
                Originally posted by nicer20

                I am having the other problem of having difficulty raising & lowering the blade. Could it be possible that I have these X4 Tiny Torx screws too tight??

                @JLPicard: Can you please post a picture so that I can locate these on my saw. Thanks in advance.

                - NG
                Remove the left side cover, and then the blade cover. NO need to take your saw off it's stand, just remove the miter table if it's installed giving you access to these panels. Make sure you have removed all power plugs, double check! Inspect to make sure your shims are still in place! If they are still good and the surface of the mechanism is not gouged, it's possible your torx set screws are too tight against the shims, mine were the opposite, too loose. Once you are in there, use some scotchbright and buff the surface the shims ride on, this won't mar the surface but should take all residue off them and brighten that surface up a bit. I'd suggest not removing all X4 of the torx set screws at the same time, just do one at a time as I described above. On that mechanism (whatever it's called) you will see X4 Phillips, and X2 Phillips, there will be X4 small holes (prolly filled with sawdust as mine were) right there as well, those contain the torx set screws. Not sure what size the Torx are, I can check tomorrow, but there were the smallest Torx bit I had.

                Here's a page that shows the torx adjustment holes, they look like threaded holes here beside the phillips screw heads, down in the threaded hole are the torx set screws:
                https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...e-ryobi-bt3000
                I don't think this page's idea is a good one, he's intalling this little bracket over top of the bottom adjustment screw hole. He adds a 'Later Note' that mentions the set screws, but I don't think he understands the reason for the set screws aren't to 'hold' the shims in place, but to adjust the shims applied pressure on the mechanism.
                Last edited by JLPicard; 01-27-2021, 08:54 PM.

                Comment

                • nicer20
                  Established Member
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 365
                  • Dublin, CA
                  • BT3100

                  #9
                  Originally posted by JLPicard

                  Remove the left side cover, and then the blade cover. NO need to take your saw off it's stand, just remove the miter table if it's installed giving you access to these panels. Make sure you have removed all power plugs, double check! Inspect to make sure your shims are still in place! If they are still good and the surface of the mechanism is not gouged, it's possible your torx set screws are too tight against the shims, mine were the opposite, too loose. Once you are in there, use some scotchbright and buff the surface the shims ride on, this won't mar the surface but should take all residue off them and brighten that surface up a bit. I'd suggest not removing all X4 of the torx set screws at the same time, just do one at a time as I described above. On that mechanism (whatever it's called) you will see X4 Phillips, and X2 Phillips, there will be X4 small holes (prolly filled with sawdust as mine were) right there as well, those contain the torx set screws. Not sure what size the Torx are, I can check tomorrow, but there were the smallest Torx bit I had.

                  Here's a page that shows the torx adjustment holes, they look like threaded holes here beside the phillips screw heads, down in the threaded hole are the torx set screws:
                  https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...e-ryobi-bt3000
                  I don't think this page's idea is a good one, he's intalling this little bracket over top of the bottom adjustment screw hole. He adds a 'Later Note' that mentions the set screws, but I don't think he understands the reason for the set screws aren't to 'hold' the shims in place, but to adjust the shims applied pressure on the mechanism.
                  JLPicard Thanks for the information. Appreciate if you can share the Torx size if you can. I will attempt to address this ASAP as I am using the saw more and not being able to move it smoothly is a PITA. More importantly, I am worried that I might break something fighting to raise the mechanism. Thanks in advance.

                  - NG

                  Comment

                  • JLPicard
                    Forum Newbie
                    • Jan 2021
                    • 16

                    #10
                    Also good stuff: https://www.amazon.com/Woodland-Scen...ws_feature_div

                    Comment

                    • JLPicard
                      Forum Newbie
                      • Jan 2021
                      • 16

                      #11
                      Torx 10...

                      Comment

                      • Black walnut
                        Administrator
                        • Aug 2015
                        • 5451
                        • BT3K

                        #12
                        I have never heard of these saws having Torx fasteners anywhere. hex socket head cap screws with triangular self threading threads in some locations and not others.

                        As far as the linked article, Norm Havens isn't around to defend himself, sadly. I can assure you he was very aware of the shim adjustment screws and like nearly all other users almost never had to touch them. I added his shim supports about '03 and haven't touched my shim adjustment since.

                        Nicer20 the OP mentioned he has a BT3000. You mentioned you have the BT3100. There is a big difference in the shims between the saw models. The 3100 does not have the shim adjustment screws because it uses a different style of shim and guide holder.
                        just another brick in the wall...

                        Boycott McAfee. They placed an unresponsive popup on my pc.

                        Comment

                        • nicer20
                          Established Member
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 365
                          • Dublin, CA
                          • BT3100

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Black walnut
                          I have never heard of these saws having Torx fasteners anywhere. hex socket head cap screws with triangular self threading threads in some locations and not others.

                          As far as the linked article, Norm Havens isn't around to defend himself, sadly. I can assure you he was very aware of the shim adjustment screws and like nearly all other users almost never had to touch them. I added his shim supports about '03 and haven't touched my shim adjustment since.

                          Nicer20 the OP mentioned he has a BT3000. You mentioned you have the BT3100. There is a big difference in the shims between the saw models. The 3100 does not have the shim adjustment screws because it uses a different style of shim and guide holder.
                          JLPicard : Thanks for sharing the Torx specs but as Black walnut pointed out I have BT3100 and it doesn't have any shim set screws.

                          Black walnut : You are very much correct. I have a BT3100 and there are no set screws for the shims (see photo 1)

                          So now that still leaves me - what could be possibly making it so hard to raise and lower the blade.

                          I found a small crack in one of the shims (Photo 2). This crack is so small that I have to spread it with my fingers to notice it. Does anyone think this crack could be causing a problem? I don't think so but I may be wrong.

                          I could swap the shim from left with the right (I think they are identical) and see if there is any change in the behavior.

                          Any thoughts or ideas??

                          Thanks in advance,

                          NG
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • JLPicard
                            Forum Newbie
                            • Jan 2021
                            • 16

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Black walnut
                            I have never heard of these saws having Torx fasteners anywhere. hex socket head cap screws with triangular self threading threads in some locations and not others.

                            As far as the linked article, Norm Havens isn't around to defend himself, sadly. I can assure you he was very aware of the shim adjustment screws and like nearly all other users almost never had to touch them. I added his shim supports about '03 and haven't touched my shim adjustment since.

                            Nicer20 the OP mentioned he has a BT3000. You mentioned you have the BT3100. There is a big difference in the shims between the saw models. The 3100 does not have the shim adjustment screws because it uses a different style of shim and guide holder.
                            Glad you never had to touch them but unlike nearly all others I did and it fixed my problem.

                            Comment

                            • Black walnut
                              Administrator
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 5451
                              • BT3K

                              #15
                              JLPicard I had my share of problems early on with the shims. Actually replaced two sets. Around the turn of the century Ryobi customer service was noteworthy and often sent parts at no cost. The last set I replaced has lasted for over 20 years. The first couple of years they were lubed often with Lock-eze a dry graphite lube with an evaporative carrier. Then I added the shim supports. Shortly after that I moved to my present home with a nice sized shop, built a large saw station that enclosed the saw, and upgraded my shopvac to a larger one. No problems since then.

                              Somewhere in there others were having issues with their shims which prompted me to write the article https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...im-replacement

                              Last edited by Black walnut; 02-14-2021, 12:00 PM.
                              just another brick in the wall...

                              Boycott McAfee. They placed an unresponsive popup on my pc.

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