3D Printing for Discontinued SMT "A" Slide?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • cwsmith
    Veteran Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 2737
    • NY Southern Tier, USA.
    • BT3100-1

    #16
    I looked at the parts illustration and flipped over my SMT (BT3100-1), the upper and lower pieces are pretty simple. I would think they'd print fairly quickly.

    My SMT is perfectly aligned, so I'm not so sure I want to mess that up by removing one of them (maybe removing one won't matter). In any case, I'll see if i can take the dimensions with the part mounted.

    Not sure what to do with the solids issue.

    CWS
    Think it Through Before You Do!

    Comment

    • cwsmith
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2005
      • 2737
      • NY Southern Tier, USA.
      • BT3100-1

      #17
      Okay, I've just upgraded my SketchUp to the new 2016 version. It says I've got a 30-day free trial of the Pro version, which I understand has solid modeling capability. Also noted that they now have a "Maker" template for 3D modeling.

      The part is simple enough and I figure it won't take more than a few minutes to draw it. But I can't take the complete dimensions without removing the component from the SMT. As mentioned earlier, my SMT is just about perfect (out of the box) and I've never had to make any adjustment. I'd prefer not to mess that up by removing a slide.

      However, only three of the slides are adjustable via the eccentric screws. The fourth should be removable and replaceable without taking the alignment out of the SMT. BUT, the instruction manual states, "The right front hex nut is a non-eccentric pivot and should never be loosened." (Page 39, "TO ADJUST THE MITER FENCE", last sentence of third bullet paragraph.)

      I see no mechanical reason why removal of this particular slide should present any problem whatsoever... Any input here would be appreciated; so, has anyone done this?

      I'll wait to see what any of you think.

      BTW the part is only 0.75 x 0.85, I've drawn the basic shape, thickness, and the measurable details on the top, but can't get accurate details of the bottom without removal.

      Joey, let me know how I can send the file to you... direct E-mail, private message or whatever.

      Thanks,

      CWS
      Last edited by cwsmith; 03-12-2016, 03:46 PM.
      Think it Through Before You Do!

      Comment

      • leehljp
        Just me
        • Dec 2002
        • 8429
        • Tunica, MS
        • BT3000/3100

        #18
        You fellows amaze me!
        Hank Lee

        Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

        Comment

        • cwsmith
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2005
          • 2737
          • NY Southern Tier, USA.
          • BT3100-1

          #19
          Well, I'm not so sure how amazing it is at this point.

          The drawing is done, but it's NOT showing as a "solid" and at this point I don't have a clue as to how to fix that. Guess some serious reading is in order here.

          If that isn't disappointing enough, AOL seems to be giving me fits... it isn't letting me send the file giving me a "try again later" notice.

          From an illustration point of view, it looks good, rotates nice and is to a tolerance of 0.001, triple checking all my measurements. Some of the ridges don't seem to have any function, but they're drawn. Now if I can only figure out this "solid" thing and what's going on with AOL.

          CWS
          Think it Through Before You Do!

          Comment

          • cwsmith
            Veteran Member
            • Dec 2005
            • 2737
            • NY Southern Tier, USA.
            • BT3100-1

            #20
            Now a new mystery with AOL... It's not letting me send the file because their server is showing: Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 499 (Request has been forbidden by antivirus).

            I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. I just ran a check on the file with my Kaspersky and it's showing no problems at all.

            (I do keep my anti-virus right up to date every time I log on.)

            Is there a way I can transfer the file via the web site?

            Here's a couple of screen shots:

            Click image for larger version

Name:	BT3K Slide A1.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	62.4 KB
ID:	787655Click image for larger version

Name:	BT3K Slide A2.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	117.7 KB
ID:	787656Click image for larger version

Name:	BT3K Slide A3.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	53.5 KB
ID:	787657


            CWS
            Think it Through Before You Do!

            Comment

            • atgcpaul
              Veteran Member
              • Aug 2003
              • 4055
              • Maryland
              • Grizzly 1023SLX

              #21
              Originally posted by cwsmith
              Now a new mystery with AOL... It's not letting me send the file because their server is showing: Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 499 (Request has been forbidden by antivirus).

              I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. I just ran a check on the file with my Kaspersky and it's showing no problems at all.

              (I do keep my anti-virus right up to date every time I log on.)

              Is there a way I can transfer the file via the web site?

              Here's a couple of screen shots:

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]22690[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]22691[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]22692[/ATTACH]


              CWS
              That's going to be an interesting print with all that unsupported space.

              Try the Solid Inspector plugin for Sketchup. It will highlight and sometimes fix gaps in your drawing.

              Comment

              • Black walnut
                Administrator
                • Aug 2015
                • 5438
                • BT3K

                #22
                Can you upload it here? hit reply go advanced,attach file?
                just another brick in the wall...

                Boycott McAfee. They placed an unresponsive popup on my pc.

                Comment

                • LCHIEN
                  Internet Fact Checker
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 20920
                  • Katy, TX, USA.
                  • BT3000 vintage 1999

                  #23
                  Originally posted by leehljp
                  Woodturner,
                  I am not up to snuff on the 3D printing for sure, but if 3D printed guns are a current possibility and other precision parts are also, I'm not comprehending the problem. It may be brittle as you say, but if it is strong enough to make gun chambers, it should stand up as a slide part on the SMT.
                  I'm sure there are denser and tougher materials that 3D printers use but the run of the mill additive stuff is generally not as good as pressure molded thermoplastics.
                  So 3D printer parts will not be as strong as the molded OEM parts they are supposed to replace. IN some cases, you would have to make the parts thicker to make them of equivalent strength, for parts with thin walls and can't be made thicker because of fit issues, they just won't do.

                  OTOH, if you know the strength of the material you are making, and its low, and you are designing from scratch, then you can make it as thick as your design will allow. For a 3D printed gun that is designed from scratch to be 3D printed, the firing chambers will be made as thick as called for to stand the firing.

                  So my point is its different issues to make a strong replacement part (it might not fit if you make it thicker) because you are constrained with the exiting dimensions vs. a strong-enoung by virtue of being thick designed from scratch part where the part is made to be to adequate dimensions stronger than needed where any extra room is allowed by the design.
                  Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-13-2016, 12:01 PM.
                  Loring in Katy, TX USA
                  If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                  BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                  Comment

                  • woodturner
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jun 2008
                    • 2047
                    • Western Pennsylvania
                    • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                    #24
                    Originally posted by cwsmith
                    The drawing is done, but it's NOT showing as a "solid" and at this point I don't have a clue as to how to fix that.
                    Can you send me the file? I can CNC mill one and then try casting in epoxy, as an alternative to the 3D printing.

                    Thanks.
                    --------------------------------------------------
                    Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                    Comment

                    • LCHIEN
                      Internet Fact Checker
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 20920
                      • Katy, TX, USA.
                      • BT3000 vintage 1999

                      #25
                      Is there a reason it can't be milled from a piece of hardwood, using metal roll pins or short glued small rod for the two small pin protrusions? I'll bet even the rounding of many corners would be optional although I haven't looked at it with a critical eye as to function. Looks very simple to mill from a small piece of hard wood such as oak, maple or walnut. I' assuming that the scale of the piece is about 1.25"square, and about 1/8" thick in the middle.
                      It doesn't appear that the large hole location needs to be precise... I don't think anything fits to that hole. The raised rounded protrusions on the edges of the base can be squared off without penalty?
                      Last edited by LCHIEN; 03-13-2016, 11:57 AM.
                      Loring in Katy, TX USA
                      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                      Comment

                      • cwsmith
                        Veteran Member
                        • Dec 2005
                        • 2737
                        • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                        • BT3100-1

                        #26
                        Very good points from everyone,

                        BUT, I just realized that I've drawn slide B, NOT A. The illustration in the Ryobi manual is vague at best, and seeing those little ridges, made me grab the wrong piece I think. Somebody want to confirm which is the actual one we need. Slide B has the bolt head resting on it and is the top slide when the SMT is flipped over. Slide A is the thicker slide which rests under the rail and is closer to the bottom of the SMT casting. Slide B, I would think, gets most of the wear as the weight of the SMT slides on it.

                        Regarding the 'solid' issue, I figured out what I did wrong, just not used to the new version and the "solids" feature... it's a couple of extra steps. I'll go back and fix that. I also need to download a couple of add-on's from their library to ensure that everything is 'solid' and also exportable to the proper file type for 3D printing. Doesn't appear to be a big deal.

                        I've never drawn anything for use on a 3D printer, so as with any other manufacturing process, a designer has to take into consideration those things necessary to make the object. Materials, casting, machining, etc. are all essential. This particular part appears to me to have been molded.

                        After looking at several You Tube videos, I can see now that "bridging" is a major consideration, and this particular slide (B) poses some challenges. It's pretty small, only 0.750 X 0.867 inches. The gap or bridge between the edge ribs is 0.720... a bit far to have a hot thread of plastic suspended in mid-air. Slide A, is actually easier to print, as one side is completely flat and there is no bridging to be encountered. It is also thicker.

                        The center hole (0.320 dia.) fits the non-eccentric bolt which has a shoulder measuring 0.3125 diameter. (I didn't remove an 'eccentric' as I didn't want to have to re-align my SMT... the slides are all the same.)

                        I've picked up a few things over my lifetime working with Development Engineers, but this is a whole new science for me. I'm a technical illustrator more than I am a design draftsman. But I also know that there have been occasions when I've offered solutions too; we all see things that others sometimes don't.

                        In this case, I'm wondering how important this exact design is... like those pins, seem to be there for no other reason than to center-locate the slide, and basically, that's done by the retaining bolt, as I see it. One could also redesign both slides in a manner that they still mate, function properly, and yet are more compatible with 3D printing. Maybe we should think about that, thus making a set of A and B slides.

                        So, back to the "drawing board" to make the right slide this time (A), make it solid, and printable.

                        Also, I was wondering how congenial Ryobi might be if we contacted them about getting a detail drawing of some of these parts that they no longer desire to manufacture. Anyone have any friendly contacts there?

                        Last, but perhaps more important. I'll gladly post the 3D SketchUp drawing here; but also, what if I make a detail drawing providing the dimensions that I've measured off the two slides? Right now they're just scratched out on a sketch. Would that be helpful?

                        CWS
                        Last edited by cwsmith; 03-13-2016, 06:42 PM. Reason: wrong dimension - italics
                        Think it Through Before You Do!

                        Comment

                        • cwsmith
                          Veteran Member
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 2737
                          • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                          • BT3100-1

                          #27
                          No response to my last post... IS IT "A" or "B"?

                          Okay, so I drew what the parts illustration is called "A". I finally finished that last night and have sent the export file used for 3D printing to JoeyGee. I'll also try to attach both the SketchUP and "STL" file here if anyone is interested.

                          On a personal note, I think if I had been given this particular little task back in 1966, as an initial test to becoming an illustrator, I would have probably done as my father wished... becoming a plumber instead! For such a simple little piece to draw, using a program that costs something close to $700, it was a bit frustrating. The new version of SketchUp (2016) doesn't work as smoothly as the previous version. I couldn't get it to draw a simple arc (the 2015 version works) and so used "circle" instead and edited the result.

                          So actually drawing the part was pretty easy, but getting it to act as a "solid" was frustrating. I do it over and over, tried three different 'order' assemblies to get this piece to appear as a 'solid' and even in its final, it is still three separate 'solid' pieces that when mated, won't show as a single "solid" piece. Even the Extention added, it won't fix the problem. Hopefully the final conversion to "STL" will make it print okay on the 3D printer. At this date, I only have the trial "Pro Edition" for another 26 days. I though if this program worked it might be worth the upgrade from the "free" version. At $699, it isn't! (Maybe I can find something significantly cheaper.... Does anyone know if you get this kind of software free with the purchase of a printer; or whether you have to add such expense on to the cost of the printer?

                          Here's a couple of window shots of the part:
                          Click image for larger version

Name:	BT3 SMT slide A1.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	34.9 KB
ID:	787660Click image for larger version

Name:	BT3 SMT Slide A2.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	30.5 KB
ID:	787661Click image for larger version

Name:	BT3 SMT Slide A3.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	787662

                          I'm almost finished with the detail drawing with all the dimensions for anyone who want to make this mechanically. I should post it later this afternoon.

                          FINAL NOTE: It appears that I cannot attach the SketchUP file here as the 'Attachment' option does not allow for the either SketchUP file or the 3D printer file type (only the following file types are allowed: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png txt zip
                          Think it Through Before You Do!

                          Comment

                          • atgcpaul
                            Veteran Member
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 4055
                            • Maryland
                            • Grizzly 1023SLX

                            #28
                            Originally posted by cwsmith
                            FINAL NOTE: It appears that I cannot attach the SketchUP file here as the 'Attachment' option does not allow for the either SketchUP file or the 3D printer file type (only the following file types are allowed: bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png txt zip
                            I'd say stick them in a ZIP file and attach that.

                            Comment

                            • All Thumbs
                              Established Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 322
                              • Penn Hills, PA
                              • BT3K/Saw-Stop

                              #29
                              Looks like it could be routed (in Delrin) with a small CNC router. How wide are those two little notches? That would dictate the size of the end mill required.

                              Comment

                              • cwsmith
                                Veteran Member
                                • Dec 2005
                                • 2737
                                • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                                • BT3100-1

                                #30
                                Here is the detail drawing and I've attached the SketchUp files.

                                Please let me know if you can use these as attached. Also if I've missed something in the detail, let me know of any changes.

                                Thanks,

                                CWS

                                BT3 SMT Slide A.pdf

                                slide A2.zip
                                Think it Through Before You Do!

                                Comment

                                Working...