Dust Collection Help Needed

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  • movnup
    Established Member
    • Aug 2006
    • 190
    • Seattle
    • BT3000

    Dust Collection Help Needed

    In order to put together a semi-permanent dust solution for the BT, miter saw, and other tools until I can buy a true Dust Collector I was doing research on different shop vacs. The one I found that was rated highly and I could tuck nicely away in the garage / shop was the wall mounted Rigid from HD. The problem is that they use a 1 7/8 O.D. hose and I spent over an hour at the store trying to rig something up to hook up to the 2 1/2 inch dust port on the BT. As usual there was no one to help there so hopefully someone here has some ideas. Two to 2 1/2 inches was a cake walk but the extra 1/8 of an inch would let of lot of air through. I'm not real clear why they would choose this size pipe/ hose as all their other vacs are 2 or 2 1/2 inch.

    As a sidebar I got a $125 gift certificate for x-mas so it's burning a hole in my pocket. I have attached a picture of what vac I was thinking of .... the only other tool that I need in that small price window was a bench top drill press but after reading the posts here and using the saw I thought this was a better purchase and would keep the saw running better.


    Last edited by movnup; 01-27-2007, 01:30 AM.
  • Ed62
    The Full Monte
    • Oct 2006
    • 6021
    • NW Indiana
    • BT3K

    #2
    Could you use the universal fix, if nothing else....duct tape?

    Ed
    Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

    For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

    Comment

    • LCHIEN
      Internet Fact Checker
      • Dec 2002
      • 21082
      • Katy, TX, USA.
      • BT3000 vintage 1999

      #3
      I have several questions. How was the vac rated highest? on what criteria? For dust collection you need the highest air flow possible, That looks like a small vac (among other problems it will fill up too fast) but it is likely to be small HP and certainly the makers have low hopes for it (with that puny hose).

      At the low end of dust collection you should start with an 6-8 gallon vac and use the 2-1/4" hoses standard on most ShopVac or Ridgid models - they'll fit right into the BT's dust port.
      Loring in Katy, TX USA
      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

      Comment

      • cgallery
        Veteran Member
        • Sep 2004
        • 4503
        • Milwaukee, WI
        • BT3K

        #4
        Originally posted by LCHIEN
        For dust collection you need the highest air flow possible.
        With the relatively small port (2.5) on the BT3K being a bottle neck, at what point do you want to trade high air flow for greater static lift? Assuming you were only using the 2.5" port, is it possible that a powerful shop vac could outperform a dust collector?

        Comment

        • wardprobst
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2006
          • 681
          • Wichita Falls, TX, USA.
          • Craftsman 22811

          #5
          Originally posted by cgallery
          With the relatively small port (2.5) on the BT3K being a bottle neck, at what point do you want to trade high air flow for greater static lift? Assuming you were only using the 2.5" port, is it possible that a powerful shop vac could outperform a dust collector?
          Not in my experience. I have a DeWalt shop vac that is pretty stout but the Oneida DC will suck the chrome off a trailer hitch to quote an old Willie Nelson line. I've hooked them both up to the BT and while the DeWalt does a decent job, the DC really gets it.
          DP
          www.wardprobst.com

          Comment

          • whitecobra
            Established Member
            • Aug 2006
            • 180
            • 3 Miles from Disney in Orlando
            • BT3K with most accessories

            #6
            I am with Loring on this one

            What is the criteria for this being "good"
            My wife uses it in her Pet Care office and it is at best OK. It picks up dog hair and nails fine but NO way is it going to keep up with the velocity of the BT

            The issue is 2 fold. One the velocity of the duct being created is HUGE the energy in the dust will "toss it" before this pressure of the vacuum can grab it and pull it in. Second there is the issue of doing the biggest crime in vacuuming plumbing. Going from larger to smaller. The 2" is going to jam up the 1 1/2" at the place they meet

            The vac cost us about $100 so why not add in the $60 and go for the HF 2HP and do it right? If you are out of space that COULD be an issue but if it is money save yours until you can do it right

            Dr Dave
            Newest site to learn woodworking, DIY and Home Renovation.
            www.onlineshopclass.com built by woodworkers for woodworkers and supported by the industry so everyone wins

            If you are in the Orlando area contact me lets get together and talk saw dust (or food or anything else you like except sports)

            My wife and I are National Food Judges so we CAN talk food with the best.

            Dr Dave

            Comment

            • cgallery
              Veteran Member
              • Sep 2004
              • 4503
              • Milwaukee, WI
              • BT3K

              #7
              Originally posted by wardprobst
              Not in my experience. I have a DeWalt shop vac that is pretty stout but the Oneida DC will suck the chrome off a trailer hitch to quote an old Willie Nelson line. I've hooked them both up to the BT and while the DeWalt does a decent job, the DC really gets it.
              DP
              Interesting. I don't know much about the DeWalt, isn't that the rechargable w/ a 1.25" hose?

              My point is that, at a certain point, my 12-gallon shop-vac is gonna beat your cyclone. Like an orbital sander. The small (1") port just provides too much resistence for a typical dust collector.

              I'm wondering if there is math that, for a given apature, will dictate air flow based on static pressure and CFM.

              Comment

              • JR
                The Full Monte
                • Feb 2004
                • 5633
                • Eugene, OR
                • BT3000

                #8
                The Ridgid shown by the OP looks like it would be a good tool next the bench. The small hose size is no big deal if you're hooked up to the ROS, or maybe router or CMS, as appropriate.

                It's no DC, though. It's not likely to be sufficient for a TS, router, planer, etc. Particularly, as Loring pointed out, regarding the volume of chips and dust produced by those machines. It'd fill up pretty quickly on those.

                JR
                JR

                Comment

                • movnup
                  Established Member
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 190
                  • Seattle
                  • BT3000

                  #9
                  Great feedback ...

                  In answer to some questions it is a 5 hp / 5 gallon with a 1 7/8 hose going up to 2.5 inch on my BT so roughly a 5/8" bottleneck. As I have a 2 1/2 car garage and kids with all of their stuff my shop layout is essentially limited to an "L" on the LHS with two work benches so space is at a premium. I could probably get a d/c in the back corner of the "L" but with a big shop vac I wouldn't be able to reach the hose or get them to my saws unless I bought a bunch of extensions which then runs into the secondary problem(s) of using / storing them.

                  The "research" I did was essentially on epenions, HD's website, and a goggle search for shop vacuum reviews. I was thinking this may not work but any power tool worthwhile at HD you're not going to buy for $125 (I have bought a few tool toys in the last 60 days so you have to bring in the wife factor also - we bought kids snow boots b/4 I took her to HD today so hopefully you get my drift ... I got a gift certificate honey !!!)

                  Comment

                  • movnup
                    Established Member
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 190
                    • Seattle
                    • BT3000

                    #10
                    Great feedback ...

                    In answer to some questions it is a 5 hp / 5 gallon with a 1 7/8 hose going up to 2.5 inch on my BT so roughly a 5/8" bottleneck. As I have a 2 1/2 car garage and kids with all of their stuff my shop layout is essentially limited to an "L" on the LHS with two work benches so space is at a premium. I could probably get a d/c in the back corner of the "L" but with a big shop vac I wouldn't be able to reach the hose or get them to my saws unless I bought a bunch of extensions which then runs into the secondary problem(s) of using / storing them.

                    The "research" I did was essentially on epenions, HD's website, and a goggle search for shop vacuum reviews. I was thinking this may not work but any power tool worthwhile at HD you're not going to buy for $125 (I have bought a few tool toys in the last 60 days so you have to bring in the wife factor also - we bought snow boots b/4 I took her to HD today so hopefully you get my drift ... I got a gift certificate honey !!!)

                    Comment

                    • jseklund
                      Established Member
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 428

                      #11
                      I am with Loring on this. I have a very nice wet/dry vac- an Attix Alto. This is a vac that is, IMO, evn better than what Festool makes. It has about 115" of static water lift, and I think either 140 or 160 CFM of air flow. It is what I use- and I'll tell you- I want a dust collector. This vacuum sucks things from across the room (OK, exageration- but once it gets ahold of something, it's gone- shop towels, screws, whatever. I can clean out between the seats in my car without using anything to reach down between the seats because it creates enough vacuum to pick things up about 2" away from the nozzle). But it's not a great dust collector. Festool bills their vacuum as a DC, but I know it would suck.

                      Most dust collectors have AT LEAST 5X the CFM of my vacuum. Some have 10-15 times that I've seen. If you're going to spend $50 on a vacuum just for dust collecting- put it towards a dust collector. If you need the vacuum for another reason, and want to double as a temporary DC- that's a different story, and the case I was in. I had the vacuum, cannot afford the DC. It fills up quickly (12 Gallons), sometimes the shavings are too big for the input at the bucket (they tend to bunch up as they come out) and get trapped between the filter and the input in mine- creating a backup and necessitating emptying even more often.


                      I have a 1 1/2" hose, and use this adapter (I bought it at Rockler):

                      http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-3...1?ie=UTF8&s=hi

                      Not sure if it will help you. You may also want to buy a "step adapter" which I have seen at HD and Lowes. It's a cone-shaped adapter that allows you to use all different sizes of attachments.
                      F#$@ no good piece of S#$% piece of #$@#% #@$#% #$@#$ wood! Dang. - Me woodworking

                      Comment

                      • Lee4847
                        Established Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 200
                        • Canton, Oh
                        • BT3100

                        #12
                        Original Question

                        I think the original question was how to adapt the different sizes? I had a similar problem and went to the plumbing dept. The flexable rubber couplings used in drain repairs is what I used. They come in various sizes and with a hose clamp you can squash the ID down at least 1/2 inch. I am using a 2 1/2 on my plumbing to the router table. The one end goes over the flange of the "T" and the other end I have squashed down so I can slide the 2" hose in for an air tight fit.

                        Lee
                        Cut twice.... measure??

                        Comment

                        • movnup
                          Established Member
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 190
                          • Seattle
                          • BT3000

                          #13
                          As an FYI, I looked at the step reducers (they are in even steps 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, etc) hence the original statement of the 1/8 gap. The closest I saw was the rubber conection that Lee mentioned after an hour in HD plumbing.

                          After reading the posts this really doesn't really sound like even a very good temp solution to use any shop vac. I have my baby shop vac out there that works great but I'm ripping a bunch of stuff today and I'm getting concerned of keeping the sawdust out of the BT as to potential major mechanical problems.

                          It will probably be quite a while to buy a true dc setup due to many other household priorites e.g. kids, wife, built in lights to finish up my double layer deck project, etc. hence the use of a gift certificate to buy it and squeek through until I can afford to set it up right.

                          One idea to save bucks is to build your own which was listed in a long thread about a month ago. Does anyone have that link as there was a lot of good discussion back and forth ??? I could then maybe use the gift certificate on the little Ryobi benchtop drill press till I can upgrade to the floor models later on.

                          As you can probaby from this and previous posts that I'm slowly but surely getting set up for a true woodshop but I always want the higher end stuff and I'm finding out quickly that even with bargains these stationary tools really add up.

                          Comment

                          • Garasaki
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 550

                            #14
                            I'm in a similar situation as you, slowly but surely trying to get a "real" woodshop.

                            I got one of the 12 gal shopvacs from Lowes for 40 bucks on black friday. I feel it is an excellent solution for my dust collection needs at this point, and I'll tell you why:

                            There is no chance of me getting a true DC right now. The shop vac is a TREMENDOUS improvement over my previous solution, a big plastic bucket underneath the 2 1/2" outlet on the BT. I have seen the shop vac solution refered to as a "Chip collector" rather then a DC on these forums, and I'd agree with this. I have no doubts that a true DC would signifigantly outperform my shop vac for duct collection.

                            Also, a shop vac will always have a place in my garage. I've really got my money's worth out of it. Between cleaning up after my wood adventures, cleaning the cars (my wife likes that part...so it's an actual wife friendly solution, perhaps the first such item in my house), and anything else it gets a lot of use.

                            I will say that there are several vital accessories. First is the optional "bags" you can get for them. I tried for a few days without the bags and I was constantly cleaning the filter out. The bags filter A LOT of the dust and make cleanup SO much easier (oh, and by the way, you'd be surprised how quickly you can generate 12 gals worth of woodchips, so I'd suggest you stay away from the smaller 2 gallonish models). Secondly is a cleanable filter to replace the cheesecloth thing that's stock. Lastly is duct tape. Throws all your transition problems out the window. Provides an airtight seal of any size. Works really well for me.

                            However, I would agree that 125 is way too much to pay for a shop vac...especially if you are debating between that and a DC (which is only 50 to 75 bucks more). Your better off putting that much money directly do a DC.
                            Last edited by Garasaki; 01-15-2007, 09:54 AM.
                            -John

                            "Look, I can't surrender without orders. I mean they emphasized that to me particularly. I don't know exactly why. The guy said "Blake, never surrender without checking"
                            -Henry Blake

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