A New Ryobi Tool

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  • leehljp
    Just me
    • Dec 2002
    • 8429
    • Tunica, MS
    • BT3000/3100

    #16
    I had not given a thought to how many cuts between sharpening but I guess I do similar as you do. I sharpen in the spring (April), before the first cut, usually cut every week to 10 days on average and sharpen again in early July. Once July hits, grass cutting is about once every other week. This puts me at about sharpening once every 6 to 8 cuts.

    Most of the time, I just feel the edge and if it starts to feel rounded over edge, I either sharpen it then or at least the next time if I am pushed for time.
    Hank Lee

    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

    Comment

    • capncarl
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 3564
      • Leesburg Georgia USA
      • SawStop CTS

      #17
      I use to change the blades every other cut because the grass wasn’t well established over the entire yard and the sand and dirt dulled blades quickly. Now that the grass is well established I still change to sharp blades just to keep from running the mower so hard. Setting almost on top of a 27hp motor running 3500 rpm is not that much fun and the racket it makes and is annoying, running at aprox 2000 rpm reduces the noise 10 fold so the noise canceling headset I use does a good job.

      Times really have changed, or maybe it is just my area, but I haven’t seen a teenager operate a lawn mower since my 2 boys left home! My neighborhood of aprox 30 homes with lots ranging from 2-5 acres each, with probably 25 of these homes having able bodied teenagers, I have only seen one teenager operating a mower. That particular time the kid was just riding around on his fathers new zero turn mower without the blades turned on. I would gladly pay the teens to cut my yard, but they won’t even cut their own parents yard. They won’t even help pick up pine cones and limbs or rake leaves. But they do exepect mom and pop to stop what they are doing and drive them into town so they can play ball. Sad.

      Concerning the price of the RM480. I consider it a purchase like this to buying a nicer shop tool, something that I want to use, like a Unisaw, or a nice custom hand plane. It’s something that gives me pleasure to use ( if that can be said of mowing the yard ) and will last a long time.

      Comment

      • durango dude
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2011
        • 934
        • a thousand or so feet above insanity
        • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

        #18
        My nearby tools direct outlet is selling close-out Subaru mowers. Subaru got out of the small engine businesses.... which is a dang shame..... they had s strong product.

        i don’t know much about new stuff.... can’t stand it. I rebuild (read hoard) Wheel horse tractors......

        Comment

        • Jim Frye
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 1051
          • Maumee, OH, USA.
          • Ryobi BT3000 & BT3100

          #19
          Just to add some information on this subject, since it appears to be a new enough product (on the market since Feb. 2017) with a somewhat unique solution. Where I live, it will cost about $2.80 per season for the electricity to keep this unit fully charged. A comparable gas engine rider nearest this size will cost about $70.00 per year for gas (@ $2.50/gal), plus the cost of oil & filter every year (about $30.00 for full synthetic oil and filter). I've also found that replacement batteries for the RM480e run $50.00 to $95.00 per battery, depending on where you buy them. Ryobi warrants the batteries for three years, so three years of fuel & oil savings should pay for battery replacement after the warranty expires. These batteries should be good for 5 to 7 years (like golf carts) if properly maintained (i.e. they sit on the charger when not in use). It strikes me that the fuel and maintenance savings would easily offset the higher initial cost of this mower over a long period of time. Also, the smallest Toro Timecutter rider lists for $900 more than this mower and uses more gas than the smaller riders. Troybilt has a battery rider, but it has half the run time of the RM480e. It uses LiOn batteries and costs the same as the RM480e. It's also not nearly as well built as the Ryobi.
          Last edited by Jim Frye; 07-20-2018, 02:59 PM.
          Jim Frye
          The Nut in the Cellar.
          ”Sawdust Is Man Glitter”

          Comment

          • Carlos
            Veteran Member
            • Jan 2004
            • 1893
            • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

            #20
            I'm not sure if that was a typo or too many mixed negatives, but Lipo/Li-Ion batteries should NOT be left on the charger. If you want them to last, and be safe, you remove them from the chargers as soon as practical to do so.

            Comment

            • Jim Frye
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2002
              • 1051
              • Maumee, OH, USA.
              • Ryobi BT3000 & BT3100

              #21
              Just to clarify what I posted. The Ryobi RM480e (and ex) mower uses Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries (4 in series). The Troybilt electric mower uses LiOn batteries and retails for the same price as the Ryobi. The SLA batteries should be left on the charger which keeps them topped (trickle charge) up automatically. This is stated in the manual. This increases the life span of the batteries. I haven't investigated how the charger works in the Troybuilt mower, but I discounted the Troybuilt mower purely due to its one hour run time. Reviewers of the Ryobi mower state that a one hour run on the RM480 uses less than 20% of the charge. SLA batteries have longer life spans if they are not completely discharged and recharged fully before they are used again.
              Jim Frye
              The Nut in the Cellar.
              ”Sawdust Is Man Glitter”

              Comment

              • woodturner
                Veteran Member
                • Jun 2008
                • 2047
                • Western Pennsylvania
                • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                #22
                Originally posted by Carlos
                Lipo/Li-Ion batteries should NOT be left on the charger. If you want them to last, and be safe, you remove them from the chargers as soon as practical to do so.
                Removing the batteries from the charger is generally NOT RECOMMENDED, in most cases and with most chargers Li-Ion batteries should be left on the charger. Definitely follow the manufacturer's recommendations, but most Li-Ion chargers have battery monitoring and conditioning and the batteries will last longer if left on the charger. Manufacturer's may differ in their recommendations, but most brands recommend leaving them on the charger to increase longevity. People report Ridgid will not warranty batteries that have not been kept on the charger, for example. One concern is that LiIon batteries deteriorate if allowed to discharge too low, and this can happen with self-discharge.

                Here is a link that explains in more detail why it's better to leave them on the charger.
                http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries
                Last edited by woodturner; 07-22-2018, 03:23 PM.
                --------------------------------------------------
                Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                Comment

                • leehljp
                  Just me
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 8429
                  • Tunica, MS
                  • BT3000/3100

                  #23
                  Originally posted by woodturner

                  Removing the batteries from the charger is generally NOT RECOMMENDED, in most cases and with most chargers LiIon batteries should be left on the charger. Definitely follow the manufacturer's recommendations, but most LiIon chargers have battery monitoring and conditioning and the batteries will last longer if left on the charger. Manufacturer's may differ in their recommendations, but most brands recommend leaving them on the charger to increase longevity. People report Ridgid will not warranty batteries that have not been kept on the charger, for example. One concern is that LiIon batteries deteriorate if allowed to discharge too low, and this can happen with self-discharge.

                  Here is a link that explains in more detail why it's better to leave them on the charger.
                  http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries
                  WT,
                  I am glad you brought this up. The key to leaving them in is - many/most LiOn batteries / battery chargers are built for that purpose. However in the smaller electronic world of cheap cell phones and small size electronics, they want to get by as cheaply as possible to sell as cheaply as possible. THESE, that situation, is where leaving batteries in - is NOT recommended. Those cheap chargers as were many early LiOn chargers did not have the self regulators on them, causing problems and even fires. I cannot give specific facts, but I do remember that early LiOn battery chargers and accompanying batteries said not to leave it in much longer past full charge. I remember that because I thought that was pure stupidity - who in the world is going to stay around a charger to see when it was done to take it out! Then we got a cordless vac with LiOn batteries about 5 years ago. There were mixed reviews on Amazon with people saying that batteries were NOT supposed to stay in past charge, and those that said they could. The actual instructions said that they could. The charger did/does have the regulator.

                  Ryobi chargers and most tools have the regulator to allow charging only for what is needed, allowing a battery to stay in the charger for even days on end. I will often put an 18V battery in my charger and not go back into my shop for two or three days, at which time I remove it and it is not hot.
                  Hank Lee

                  Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                  Comment

                  • Carlos
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 1893
                    • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                    #24
                    Self-discharge rates are nearly nothing on Lithium batteries. The best case is that the charger is high end enough to disconnect the battery when it is done. Many are less intelligent and lead to things like ballooning batteries, as Hank noted. It is always safe to have the batteries off the charger for months, it MIGHT be safe to have them on the charger. I have close to 300 LiPo batteries in my house, there's certainly no way for them to live on chargers all the time. We have a couple of very smart programmable chargers. The tool batteries come off the charger within a day of finishing, and the daily-use 18650s come off when I happen to walk by and see the charge is done. Many years ago I had bought into the idea of leaving them on the charger and that they should always be topped up, which lead to a bunch of ballooned batteries. Expensive lesson learned, now we try to pull them right away.

                    Our Li-Ion hand vac recommends removing it from the charger, and not recharging all the time. The same thing that Apple says, in fact, and they lead in long battery life.

                    The article linked above explains the reasons why you should remove batteries from the charger for maximum overall life. Here's one gem from it (I've read that article a few times over the years).

                    Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge. When fully charged, the charge current must be cut off. A continuous trickle charge would cause plating of metallic lithium and compromise safety. To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the peak cut-off as short as possible.

                    Comment

                    • Jim Frye
                      Veteran Member
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 1051
                      • Maumee, OH, USA.
                      • Ryobi BT3000 & BT3100

                      #25
                      I have learned some more about this mower and hopefully folks aren't sick of me blathering on about it. I'm getting more and more convinced that it's not a bad buy at $2,500. The RM480e packs 48 volts and 4,000 watts of power in its battery pack for two hours of run time. The comparably priced Troybilt TB30 E uses a 56 volt max., 1,500 watt pack for one hour of run time, but reviewers say that when votage drops to 50 volts, your'e pretty much done mowing. Troybilt (MTD equipment) says about a 4 hour recharge time from 50 volts. Ryobi says 12 hours to recharge the RM480 from completely discharged. If I have to mow more than an hour, I think I see the advantage.

                      The good news is that we just bought a year old Honda Fit executive car, saving $4,000 off of MSRP, so SWMBO thinks we can afford the electric Ryobi.
                      Jim Frye
                      The Nut in the Cellar.
                      ”Sawdust Is Man Glitter”

                      Comment

                      • Carlos
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 1893
                        • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                        #26
                        Keep talking, it keeps reminding me how lucky I am not to have grass! LOL

                        Comment

                        • Jim Frye
                          Veteran Member
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 1051
                          • Maumee, OH, USA.
                          • Ryobi BT3000 & BT3100

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Carlos
                          Keep talking, it keeps reminding me how lucky I am not to have grass! LOL
                          Oh we have grass, but it's a dry grass!
                          Jim Frye
                          The Nut in the Cellar.
                          ”Sawdust Is Man Glitter”

                          Comment

                          • Carlos
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 1893
                            • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                            #28
                            I just had a weird battery experience. I have a brand new battery directly from the manufacturer of a quadcopter, which I got in March, and never used. I got it with 67% charge remaining, normal for storage. I charged it fully, and put it in the backpack for the quad. I haven't flow much recently, and had used the other batteries only. Today I was going to assess damage to a neighbor's roof from a recent storm, so I topped off the battery again, which was at 91% to start with. I flew around for a few minutes at slow speed, getting video and pictures of the damage and inspecting the rest of the roof. Just as I was finishing up, I got a low battery warning. I hit the auto-return button and the quad landed with just 6% left. This quadcopter normally has over 20 minutes of flight time even when being flown pretty fast, and this was mostly a hover and photo thing. It should have lasted 25-30 minutes. No idea what happened here, and I'll contact the manufacturer tomorrow. This would have been a very bad thing if it were in drone mode or I was flying far.

                            I've had short runs on batteries before when they start to go bad. The charger says full, but then you only get a few minutes out of it. But never on a new battery.

                            Comment

                            • woodturner
                              Veteran Member
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 2047
                              • Western Pennsylvania
                              • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                              #29
                              Originally posted by leehljp

                              WT,
                              I am glad you brought this up. The key to leaving them in is - many/most LiOn batteries / battery chargers are built for that purpose. However in the smaller electronic world of cheap cell phones and small size electronics, they want to get by as cheaply as possible to sell as cheaply as possible. THESE, that situation, is where leaving batteries in - is NOT recommended. Those cheap chargers as were many early LiOn chargers did not have the self regulators on them, causing problems and even fires. I cannot give specific facts, but I do remember that early LiOn battery chargers and accompanying batteries said not to leave it in much longer past full charge. I remember that because I thought that was pure stupidity - who in the world is going to stay around a charger to see when it was done to take it out! Then we got a cordless vac with LiOn batteries about 5 years ago. There were mixed reviews on Amazon with people saying that batteries were NOT supposed to stay in past charge, and those that said they could. The actual instructions said that they could. The charger did/does have the regulator.
                              If the charger does not have the conditioning electronics, it could damage the batteries. I was not aware of the cell phone issues you reference, perhaps it is limited to specific brands or models or has been resolved in newer products. I typically use $5 smart phones on free providers, and they have the conditioning circuitry - but they are also name brands like LG and Kyocera, just older models or refurbs.

                              One of the limitations of Li-Ion is the relatively high self-discharge rate, about 10% compared to 5% for a lead acid battery or 0.3% for an alkaline (source: industry standards, battery manufacturers, published research and testing battery education battery university ). Environmental conditions such as temperature and humidity can increase the rate significantly. As a result, people want to leave them on the charger so they are ready to use when needed. In addition, the batteries can self-discharge to the point of damage if stored too long without charging, one reason they are normally shipped fully charged and with a shelf life. I think most people leave their cell phones on the charger often, and it's impractical to expect the general public to monitor their cell phone charging carefully. FWIW the charging circuitry is usually in the phone SoC now, so it's essentially provided "for free".

                              Ryobi chargers and most tools have the regulator to allow charging only for what is needed, allowing a battery to stay in the charger for even days on end. I will often put an 18V battery in my charger and not go back into my shop for two or three days, at which time I remove it and it is not hot.
                              It would be interesting to know if there are still any current products that do not have the battery and charge monitoring circuitry. Everything I have looked at for the last couple of years has had it.
                              Last edited by woodturner; 07-23-2018, 06:07 AM.
                              --------------------------------------------------
                              Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                              Comment

                              • Carlos
                                Veteran Member
                                • Jan 2004
                                • 1893
                                • Phoenix, AZ, USA.

                                #30
                                Lithium rechargeable batteries are best stored and shipped at 70%, not full. The Battery University link above tells you that, and it's easy to research it to see that everyone agrees on that. I unboxed a new tablet device yesterday, and it was at 65% out of the box. Normal. Straight off the manufacturing line, most rechargeable lithium batteries are 60-90%, depending on the manufacturer and process.

                                The law requires air shipments of rechargeable lithium batteries by vendors to be at 30% charge, no higher. I don't think it applies to consumers shipping them, but haven't researched that detail. Batteries inside a full device can be shipped at a higher level.

                                Self-discharge rates vary by the quality of the battery (impurities accelerate it). The self-discharge rate of the battery itself is only 1-3% per month. If it's a battery with its own brains, that can add another couple % of loss. I've seen this myself, and it's also well documented. We have some batteries that have sat for a year without use, and they are typically at around 70% remaining when I recharge them. Primary lithium cells have even lower self-discharge rates.

                                A lead-acid battery in a warm place will lose 50% in six months. It's very temperature-dependent and in cold, it will lose a lot less.

                                If you truly want the max lifetime from a Lipo, you should discharge it to 70% if it won't be used right away, until the next use. Of course, that's terribly inconvenient in most cases. But it's why they are normally not shipped at 100%. We have two high-end programmable chargers with a storage mode that brings them to that level automatically. This is yet another reason why they should never be left on the charger.

                                High temperature is the enemy. In particular, do not recharge them if they are hot from usage.

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