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  • Woodshark
    Established Member
    • May 2006
    • 158
    • Atlanta

    #16
    Originally posted by cwsmith

    MY 68' Plymouth Valiant, slant six was the easiest engine to work on I ever had. Plugs were a snap to change, as was the oil, filters, etc.

    CWS
    Your right. We had a mid sixties Dodge Dart. Those slant six engines were by far the easiest engine to work on every. You open the hood and everything you need to reach is right there in front of you. With plenty of room to spare.
    sigpic

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    • jking
      Senior Member
      • May 2003
      • 972
      • Des Moines, IA.
      • BT3100

      #17
      Originally posted by cwsmith
      MY 68' Plymouth Valiant, slant six was the easiest engine to work on I ever had. Plugs were a snap to change, as was the oil, filters, etc.
      When I was in high school, the car my Dad bought for us to drive to school was a '70 Dodge Polara (land yacht). Slant six, three on the tree. While easy to change the oil filter, I would have preferred it not be removeable from top side. It always made quite a mess when the oil in the filter ran out over everything...

      Comment

      • cwsmith
        Veteran Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 2737
        • NY Southern Tier, USA.
        • BT3100-1

        #18
        Originally posted by jking
        When I was in high school, the car my Dad bought for us to drive to school was a '70 Dodge Polara (land yacht). Slant six, three on the tree. While easy to change the oil filter, I would have preferred it not be removeable from top side. It always made quite a mess when the oil in the filter ran out over everything...

        Oh, that was never a real problem until I started doing that Saturday morning ritual of looking after the car.... and, whole reason for that was that on my little Valiant, the valve cover bolts would always loosen and the oil would pump out anyway leaving a mess. (So, the oil filter change only added to what was already there.)

        It was those loose cover bolts that started me on the "ritual"... every Saturday morning I'd pop the hood and snug the cover bolts, then gradually over the next few times started doing a few other things. But of course by the time I got to actually changing the oil and filter, you once again added oil to the outside of the engine... but I used a foil bread pan to catch as much as I could and to hold the old filter.

        After seven years and 84,000 miles I gave that car to my brother.. who then promptly traded it on some junk-heap of a van. The girl who got the Valiant never bothered with oil, engine, or checking anything and the engine was wrecked within the year.

        While I can understand some "modernizations" to alleviate pollution and to make cars safer, there's stuff that I really miss about old cars like the Valiant. Stuff like those "wing-windows", below the dash simple little hinged vent doors, and the fact that the window defrost could be completely shut off and all the heat directed to the floor. In the summers you really wanted nice fresh, un-ducted air and in these NE winters, it was a good thing to really keep that windshield as cold as possible at times. I hate my last two vans, as they put just enough heat against the windshield to cause icing, but not melting.

        CWS
        Last edited by cwsmith; 08-27-2012, 06:56 PM.
        Think it Through Before You Do!

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        • vaking
          Veteran Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 1428
          • Montclair, NJ, USA.
          • Ryobi BT3100-1

          #19
          Originally posted by LCHIEN
          that's probably it.

          It would be interesting if the testing agencies (Consumer reports, ?) gave a numerical service hours per 100,000 miles based upon the total labor hours from the (book that all the service shops use to charge hours of labor for specific tasks on specific car models) for all the recommended services as many times as required in the 100,000 mile period. For example, one spark plug change (6 hours because you have to jack the motor out), oil filter change 1.5 hour x 12 changes because you have to loosen the PS pump to get at it, etc.

          The you could have a real comparison of servicability and maintenance costs of a car.
          There are cars that come with 100,000 mile warranty. If you are concerned about total cost of repairs within 100,000 miles - just buy a Huindai. Within the warranty repairs are free from a dealer, beyond the warranty you should not own a car. Manufacturers now are trying to make cars last the warranty period and no more, so cars are disposable, not serviceable. Most things we have now are disposable when they brake, why should cars be different? Would you consider making repair on your TV if it brakes?
          Manufacturers spend good deal of time studying how long people usually own their cars before they replace them. Factory warranty usually covers typical original owner. What happens after the car is sold is irrelevant to the manufacturer. More people today lease cars then buy them - this is a guarantee that you will not have that car for more than 3 years. After the lease the dealer will sell that car as "certified preowned". The dealer knows what needs to be serviced to sell that car and how long the car will last. The time for DIY in cars have passed just like it did everywhere else. I noticed that Home Depot nowdays is running classes for consumers "how to install window treatment". A typical DIY project now is only about cosmetics, everything else should be left to the pro. Less and less people do any real work as DIY and market reflects it.
          Alex V

          Comment

          • mpc
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2005
            • 979
            • Cypress, CA, USA.
            • BT3000 orig 13amp model

            #20
            Alex -
            My newest car is in fact a Hyundai (Genesis sedan - I needed one 4-door in my little fleet for when the folks visit; crawling into my 2-door hatchbacks results in lots of complaints). The powertrain warranty is the only 10years/100k miles one; much of the car is 5/50, and the "supplied electronics" (i.e. really expensive stereo & nav system) is 3/36. Thing is... I don't drive a lot, and this car is one of a couple I own so the mileage part of the warranty is useless - everything expires based on age. Some of the scheduled maintenance (not covered by warranty) will be expensive: the transmission uses 10 quarts of a specific $70/quart fluid (!)... though once out of warranty a SAE J-something standard fluid really is the same stuff for about a third the cost. One of my other cars is a 1988 sports car that looks almost showroom new with just over 80K miles on it. Getting it serviced anywhere is almost impossible (most dealers won't touch it); just getting parts is always a 1-4 week proposition for what little is still available. At least it uses plain & inexpensive API GL-4 & GL-5 fluids.

            Even if something isn't DIY-able on cars that shouldn't rule out local shops/garages too. Too many dealers have lousy service departments and, if independent shops went totally out of business, the dealer shops would probably get even worse. Need some competition out there. Those costs I suggested car magazines publish were meant to include any scheduled maintenance costs, not just common big repairs. Cars with a good warranty may still have very expensive scheduled maintenance simply because stuff is so hard to access.

            mpc
            Last edited by mpc; 08-29-2012, 01:23 AM.

            Comment

            • jseklund
              Established Member
              • Aug 2006
              • 428

              #21
              Great thread...and one I am all too familiar with. I maintain my car, my gf's car, my mom's car and often help my dad with his. I'm kind of the mechanic in the family, huh?

              Between the 4 of us, we have 3 Audi's, a lexus and a benz. I've gotten very good at working on the Audis, having even replaced the heads on my mom's Audi.

              I have learned some things in all my time working on cars - much of which has already been stated, but it comes down to this:

              1. The right tools are not always necessary.
              2. The right procedures are not always necessary.
              3. The right tools will OFTEN save you a TON of time.
              4. The right procedures often seem like they will take too long, but will save you more time than you think compared to the work-around you thought you came up with.
              5. You need to know which of these 4 rules apply when.

              For instance, when I was fairly new to this, a friend asked me to help him do a spark plug change on his Dodge Minivan. In the book, step 1 was "Remove Alternator" - which seemed like it would take a ton of time and I be very difficult. I worked the first 5 plugs out in about 40 minutes. The last plug - I spent over 2 hours on and never did get it out. Having more experience, I now realize I could have removed and replaced that alternator in less than 30 minutes and blasted through the job in no time.

              On the other hand, when replacing the heads on my mom's engine, the first step was, "remove engine". I skipped this and really had no issues. It would have taken me hours (I've never pulled an engine), cost me money (I don't have an engine lift), and saved me no time.

              I often find myself cursing an engineer, but I think it really is that different departments don't talk and all departments are geared toward assembly and not maintanence.

              At the end of the day, working on cars is a pain and more work than any of us would like. And there is always that ONE BOLT that won't come lose. I've done 20 minute jobs that took me DAYS with a impact wrenches, breaker bars, torches, sawsalls, etc. - because that 1 bolt would not move. It happens everytime.
              F#$@ no good piece of S#$% piece of #$@#% #@$#% #$@#$ wood! Dang. - Me woodworking

              Comment

              • JimD
                Veteran Member
                • Feb 2003
                • 4187
                • Lexington, SC.

                #22
                I guess everybody has their stories. I'll try to keep this brief. BMW doesn't engineer minis, they just own the company. I have a BMW 128i convertible and a Suzuki Grand Vitara. Both are 6s but the BMW is far easier to do routine maintenance on. The BMW drain plug is behind a trap door on the plastic underpan. The Suzuki requires removal of the pan. The BMW oil filter is on the top of the motor right out in the open. The Suzuki is tucked in on the drivers side of the V6 where you almost can't get to it. I remove the drivers side front wheel and go in through the wheel well. Other things easier on the bimmer include valve adjustment (none), spark plug replacement, interior air filter replacement, and headlight bulb replacement. So far my little bimmer is far better than average for thinking ahead. There is no drain plug on the differential, however, but access to the manual transmission drain and fill plugs is good.

                We did another oil change event at church last Saturday. We only did about 40 cars this time, I did 6 or 7. They ranged from a GM with the drain plug and filter right next to each other (so one placement of the drip pan covered both) to an import with the filter behind a huge metal pan across the front of the motor. I don't care what the engineers excuse is a little thinking would avoid a lot of hassles for mechanics later. Especially for the routine service items they need to spend the extra few minutes. GM has started canister filters on the top of their engines. The first ones were fine but they keep pinching the air intake down onto the plastic plug to the point you can hardly get them off now. That is nonsense. Give us another quarter inch. That kind of thing is just dumb.

                Jim

                Comment

                • sscherin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 772
                  • Kennewick, WA, USA.

                  #23
                  Originally posted by cwsmith
                  The girl who got the Valiant never bothered with oil, engine, or checking anything and the engine was wrecked within the year.
                  CWS
                  I don't believe you! a Slant 6 can't be killed by any power known to man or beast.
                  A fried asked me to help him tow home a Scamp he bought with a blown engine.. We get there and sure enough there is a fist size hole in the side of the block.. Rod and piston MIA..
                  Just for giggles we jump started it and the darn thing fired up and ran.. It was rough but it was running.. You could shine a flashlight in the side of the block and see the crank spinning in there. LOL

                  We took it for a few laps round the field and said what the heck, lets go! We drove it 12 miles to a friends shop where we pulled the motor ,trans, & k-member then swapped in a 360, 727 trans and 8 3/4 rear end.

                  On inspection we found the six had about a cup of oil in the pan and a big pile of metal that used to be the piston, rod and bearings.
                  William's Law--
                  There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it
                  cannot be solved by brute strength and ignorance.

                  Comment

                  • sscherin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 772
                    • Kennewick, WA, USA.

                    #24
                    When it come to service I loved my 69 Dodge W100 4x4 The PO had built a winch bumper that could double as a work platform so engine access was easy..
                    The truck sat high enough that you could sit up under it and work on it..
                    I had to put new bearings in the engine once and found you could take the oil pan off with the engine in the truck. I swapped all the rod and crank bearings without even lifting the hood.

                    Vehicle I'd rather watch burn on the front lawn than work on was my 04 Nissan Quest..
                    Had to pull the glove box out and almost sit on your head to swap the cabin filters.
                    I never did the spark plugs because I couldn't find the back 3 (never looked hard either)
                    A/C PS belt had a manual screw tensioner and set nut.. The set nut was in a dished pulley so close to the frame you couldn't get a ratchet in there.. I had to use a socket with a hex adapter and a wrench to adjust it. We traded it in for a Chevy Traverse 3 weeks ago.. The dealer has had it's service department working on the Quest since then and they still don't have it out on the lot.. I saw it parked next to the service shop this weekend with half the dash removed..
                    William's Law--
                    There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it
                    cannot be solved by brute strength and ignorance.

                    Comment

                    • cwsmith
                      Veteran Member
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 2737
                      • NY Southern Tier, USA.
                      • BT3100-1

                      #25
                      Originally posted by sscherin
                      I don't believe you! a Slant 6 can't be killed by any power known to man or beast.
                      That's terrific... now I wish that I had looked the girl up and got my "Val" back. I really liked that car.

                      At the time by brother was just out of high school and needed a car. We had recently bought a 76' Mercury Monarch (I've expressed my hate over that POS in an earlier post.) But, I couldn't afford the insurance for two cars and my wife didn't like to drive.

                      So, I took the Valiant down to a mechanic friend of mine and had him put on new tires, new brakes all around, and totally check everything out.... and then I gave it to my brother!

                      Well, I should have known... he was more attracted to a 65' Ford Van that was a total piece of junk. So he sold the Valiant to this chic, bought the van (I think he was suffering from "illusions of gradeur" at the time.

                      I wasn't happy when I saw the rusty old van he was driving... and asked about the Valiant. Several months later he came back at me with a "Justified" attitude "that it was a good thing he had dumped that Valiant because obviously something was wrong with it!

                      Kid brothers... what ya gonna do!

                      CWS
                      Think it Through Before You Do!

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