Highway Driving

[radhak]

... was referenced as "failure to yield to an oncoming vehicle". the officer, and the court i appealed to, pointed out that vehicles in that situation had the right of way, and that i could not impede their progress.

Absolutely correct - and that's how I interpret 'yield' to be. I slow down on the ramp, wait for clear road or an indication that the driver is allowing me in (slows down, or moves lanes) before I merge.

There have been many times when drivers don't care or want to teach me a lesson for simply being on the merge ramp, and I have had to stop completely. In twice such cases, I have been rear-crashed into, once seriously enough to give my 4 year old daughter whiplash that lasted a week. Of course the guy behind me was ticketed, telling me I was not at fault, nor those sanctimonious drivers who wanted to put me in my place; but at that point, I didn't care who had 'the right' - I only wished their competitive spirit had some generosity too.

Obviously the world would be a better place if everybody followed rules to the letter, but not everything can be cut to a rule : the very idea of a 'yield' on the roads is that there will be a bit of give-and-take amongst the drivers involved; otherwise all such would be replaced by stop signs or even traffic lights.

and i'm not mocking courtesy. i'm merely pointing out that it isn't part of the traffic laws/regulations here in NY. and i don't think the word courteous is used in any traffic regs, anywhere. again, if all drivers observed the traffic laws and regulations of their localities, there would be far fewer accidents since all drivers would adhere to the same conventions when operating their vehicles, and not relying on the nebulous concept of courtesy.

Having lived in the tri-state area, I can verily agree that 'courtesy' would not be used there in general, but it is a word used very often in DMV handbooks. I don't have all such handy, but check these out :

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/right_of_way.htm (right on top of the page )

or http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/dlbook.pdf (page 26)

or http://doa.alaska.gov/dmv/dlmanual/dlman.pdf (page 3)

http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/37.pdf (thru out)

Again, laws cannot cover everything - road sense is far more important. No question, 'courtesy' is nebulous, but very much needed, unless you are ready to put a traffic light at every crossing in the nation - major, minor or dinky.

[cwsmith]

I also live in NY State... and I've never gotten a ticket for "slightly" exceeding the highway speed limit. I think "informally" there is a given allowance of 7-8 MPH over the posted highway limit. In most of NY, the "state highway limit" is clearly 55 MPH and you will see signs that post it that way: "NY State Highway Limit 55 MPH". On the interstate system (I consistantly drive Interstate 86) the posted limit is 65 MPH.

I consistantly drive 62 in the 55 and 72 n the 65, and I've passed plenty of State Troopers and radars without even so much as a blink. However, in posted workzones where the posted speed limit is 55, you darn well better be doing 55, there is no tolerance there! Perhaps other regions of the state the inforcement may be different, but across the southern tier area, that's how I've always known it.

(Note that the last time I got a speeding ticket was in 1999... I had just returned from a trip to Chicago and wasn't thinking on the following days short trip through a 55 zone when I got caught doing 68! Totally my fault. That was the first ticket since 1976 and over my life, I've received a total of three speeding tickets.)

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I drive between Binghamton andf Corning a lot and know just about every crack, dip, and pothole over that 75-mile trip. I just made that trip again this morning. While there's no question that I get passed by a few "speeding" cars, it is not at all surprising to see them further down the road sitting on the right shoulder with a state trooper standing at their side. Most of these are out of state drivers.

The biggest hazards on the road, IMO, are those cars that are going too slow or are playing "speed monitor". We had one today, sitting in the passing lane, who had aligned himself just to the rear of a a tractor-trailer that was in the right lane. My first impression was that it was someone who had decided to pass the truck, but then got scared because of all the mist that the truck was kicking up in the rain. The car just seemed stuck there in the passing lane and together with the truck, there was nine or ten cars backed up behind them.

I didn't want to be part of the "pack", so I dropped way back and found myself at times doing only about 60. Some of the cars were jocking back and forth between the lanes, trying to get around this character, who seemed to be simply holding on to that, just to the left rear of the truck. I could see the truck driver appeared to be a bit nervous too, as he'd slow up and move way over close to the right shoulder a couple of times. But regardless, the car would slow down and maintain his position in the passing lane, just to he rear of the truck.

After a few miles, I realized this driver wasn't interested in passing, just blocking the lane and keeping all the other drivers backed up. You could plainly see a few of the other drivers were getting upset as a couple attempted to pass the obstructing car on the right... but then that car would speed up to keep anybody from passing him on the right.

Finally, we hit a long straight stretch and the truck driver just appeared to floor-it, going well over the speed limit and when that happend the pack took advantage and everyone passed this "blocking" car on the right.

After the pack cleared, I did the same thing and as I passed on the right, I was surprised to see this jerk was just some character in his 40's or 50's; I had expected some elderly person. In any case, as I passed him he had this big smirk on his face. I finally lost him in my rear-view, but he was still in the passing lane.

I guess the point is, that if you insist on holding exactly to the posted limit you can become a road hazard. Especially if you decide to "police" all those behind you as a "lesson". Like I said, I drive fast but I don't go beyond what I think is allowable and I sure as heck don't put myself in a position where I will obstruct other vehicles. Like it or not, when I see someone coming up fast on my rear, I move over; even if that means that I have to drop my speed a bit in order to get back into the right lane.

Likewise, I know well the hazardous situation that you can create by being a road hog, or hinderance to the traffic flow. Whether that means you move to another lane, to allow entrance from a ramp, or you move out of the way of an obvious speeder, you do whatever is necessary to minimize the hazard for both you and others. I guess I would go so far as to say that if everyone in going twenty mph over the speed limit, then I sure as the devil, wouldn't want to obstruct the traffic flow and therefore I'd probably be keeping pace, albeit somewhat behind the lead cars.

CWS

[dbhost]

On the on ramp issue, I think if you are not speeding up, or slowing down (intentionally blocking) then you should be fine LEGALLY. However safety wise might be another story. And most jurisdictions do have reckless driving statutes, which can cover a wide range of driving behavior including intentionally blocking lane access.

[toolguy1000]

On the on ramp issue, I think if you are not speeding up, or slowing down (intentionally blocking) then you should be fine LEGALLY. However safety wise might be another story. And most jurisdictions do have reckless driving statutes, which can cover a wide range of driving behavior including intentionally blocking lane access.

thank you. again, the operative word is "intentionally". maintaining speed is not "intentionally" blocking anythng. the driver in the acceleration lane is required to yield the right of way to the driver in the flow of traffic. at least that's what the manuals linked by radhak seem to indicate. two that i reviewed briefly even noted that if, after attempting to enter a highway in an acceleration lane, safe entry cannot be made into the flow of traffic, the accelerating driver must stop. kind of what i said all along.

i must admit that i was surprised to see the word "courtesy" in these publications, and perhaps that's part of the problem. attempting to personally interpret that term can cause individuals to do things that other drivers don't expect, leading to potentially dangerous consequences (like rear-ending accidents).

and while laws enforcement may look the other way concernng 5-7 mph "overages" regarding speed limits, they do still have the right to issue tickets for exceeding the limit, even if only by 1 mph. or else, what's a speed limit for? it isn't referred to as a "speed suggestion". so i'll just continue motoring along at 55 mph and try to stretch those increasingly expensive gallons of gasoline as far as i can. only a posted minimum speed limit will get me to exceed that.

as for the "courteous" drivers out there, i'll just try to stay as far away from those well intentioned accidents looking for a place to happen as i can.

[Kristofor]

and i defy anyone to present proof from any federal, state, county or local authority of a traffic law using the word "courtesy" in their driving regulations. i am fairly confident that no such ridiculous term is used in any of our traffic laws/codes here in NY and i am fairly certain that legal authorities in other parts of the country adhere to the same conventions.

http://www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs/DLTra...assDManual.pdf

Well, it may not be in the regulation itself, but it's emphasized in the driver's manual... (p41)

Right of Way and Yielding

Right-of-way and yielding laws help traffic flow smoothly and safely.
They are based on courtesy and common sense. Violation of these

laws is a leading cause of traffic crashes.

dbhost....i'd like to see that regulation posted on an official web site of any regulatory authority where a vehicle in the flow of traffic, and not intentionally trying to block another vehicle, by speeding up or slowing down, is supposed to yield his right of way to an entering vehicle.

This is specifically talking about trucks, but it does indeed indicate that you should yield your right of way to an entering vehicle

"When a commercial vehicle merges into traffic, it requires more time

than a car to accelerate and reach normal speed. Be prepared to slow

down or change lanes, if necessary, to allow the truck to merge safely." (p47)

[Richard in Smithville]

Up here in Ontario, the posted speed limit on divided, multi-lane highways is 100 km/h( about 62mph). It is acceptable to travel 20-30 km/h over the posted speed limit as long as it is going with the flow of traffic. That being said, you had better not get caught going 30km/h over if the rest of the traffic is only going 20km/h over. And you really better not be going faster than everyone else and jumping lane to lane in passing. This really only applies to multi-lane, divided hwy's( what we call the 400 series). Don't try anything more than 10km/h over on any lesser hwy's. And no matter what road you are on, never, ever go 50+km/h or you will get charged with stunt driving; which includes having your car taken away-you will be dropped somewhere to get a cab- and given a really big fine.

Also, if you block traffic traffic in any way while on the hwy, you can be charged and fined with a traffic offence.

[Cochese]

You can also get a ticket for going the speed limit in the left lane here. Inhibiting the flow of traffic is worse than going one or two over.


Which, BTW, you cannot get a ticket via laser for here either. To get a ticket for that, it has to be a paced record of your speed.

[toolguy1000]

........Well, it may not be in the regulation itself...

thank you for making my point. and regarding yielding and rights of way, who said anything about trucks?

[Kristofor]

thank you for making my point. and regarding yielding and rights of way, who said anything about trucks?

Uh, you did... I even quoted it for you. Here it is again with some emphasis.

i'd like to see that regulation posted on an official web site of any regulatory authority where a vehicle in the flow of traffic, and not intentionally trying to block another vehicle, by speeding up or slowing down, is supposed to yield his right of way to an entering vehicle.

Do you not believe that was from an official web site? Or that a truck is a vehicle? Or that it indicates that you should slow down or move over (aka yield the right of way) if needed for said entering vehicle?

This is a silly point to debate anyhow, when the more general principle of "don't drive like an a-hole" so easily handles this scenario and almost all others (yet never shows up as law).

[natausch]

I agree that in major cities the rules above don't really hold true. My daily commute is 30 miles in and out from a far Chicago Suburb to near Chicago. Only somewhat painful; about one hour of highway driving at best.

Previously I commutted from North San Francisco Bay Area to South San Francisco; about a two hour commute each way.

I also drive regularly to Wisconsin to visit family, very different set of rules there about use of the left lane. Most people see it as a cruising lane but I ease off since our plates are Illinois, and I don't want to be a typical FIB.

[Black wallnut]

Traffic laws require "reasonable and prudent" as well as "with due regard to the safety of others". Driving in a manner outside of these opens one up to violations. However the vehicle already on a limited access hiway has a reasonable expectation to be able to continue without slowing, which is why merging traffic must yield. Many of our interchanges are signed as such. The actual laws vary from state to state but the concepts are the same. My state uses reckless and negligent for those times when there may not be a specific law about a specific act or omission.

I've not found the citation for this but trust me that it is there. Former LEO, as well as professional driver.

[luteman]

Whenever I see a driver wearing his baseball cap backwards, I automatically assume he is sitting on his brains!

[Woodshark]

The "Racer".... driver's going slower than you, but when go to pass him, he speeds up! You speed up to, in an attempt to make the pass and he continues to accelerate until you either give up and drop back, or break the speed limit to get ahead of him. Once passed, he usually drops back pretty fast, resuming his old speed.

The "Hesitator".... you see the driver ahead of you, moving up and closing the gap between him and the tractor-trailer ahead. But as he starts to pass, he let's up on the accelerator and commenses to parallel the trailer for several miles. I'm never sure what's up with these types. Have they lost there courage or are they counting the wheels?


The "Truck Buddies"... One rig will swing out and start to pass the other and then when they get cab-to-cab they go through recognition, joy, or reaquintance, or something... because they just parallel each other for a couple of miles and usually slow down a bit in the process. I'm guessing one of their CB's are broke or something!

CWS

Wow, it's like your right there in the car with me. I see these three all the time, especially the "Hesitator". We always joke about the gravitational field that must surround big trucks. These people start to pass and then must get caught in something that attracts them to stay beside the 18 wheeler. They drive side by side for a couple of miles until the truck slows down while going upgrade.

"and my personnal favorite....... highway access ramps. i'm in the right lane @ the limit (55mph) and drivers on the ramp put their left signal on and assume that i will move left to provide room for them to enter the flow of traffic. the shocked look on their faces as they run out of ramp room and start drivng on the shoulder as i maintain my position and speed always gives me a chuckle."

Really? If there is room, I am more than happy to be courteous and ease into the left lane for a couple hundred feet so that the merging driver can enter the highway at safe speed. It is the considerate thing to do, keeps the flow of traffic going and only required me to move my thumb on the steering wheel about two inches. Twice.

[Cochese]

Whenever I see a driver wearing his baseball cap backwards, I automatically assume he is sitting on his brains!

Let's not go there.

[natausch]

This isn't a gray area, the law is very clear on vehicles who are merging and through vehicles in a lane with a merging lanes sign.

The problem is most people really don't understand the purpose of the merging lanes or merging traffic signs. Both serve as a yield sign. They see that the merging traffic has to yield the right of way and assume they can go on their merry way. Wrong; both drivers have a responsibility to yield right of way in this situation.

Description of Merging Traffic Sign: This sign tells you that two lanes of traffic going the same direction will soon merge into one lane. Be ready to either change lanes or allow other traffic to merge into your lane. Merge signs appear on expressways just before expressway ramps. The driver on the expressway slows down to let the driver on the ramp merge.

Two signs govern right of way on ramps that do not have an additional lane for merging traffic to come up to speed; Yield and Merging Lanes.

This isn't about courtesy; it is about mutual responsibility to avoid a collision when merging or in a lane that vehicles are merging into.

You are not "fine" legally, you are refusing to yield right of way the same as someone who is merging and doesn't adjust their speed to allow through traffic the right of way. Both of you are in voilation and both are responsible if there is a collision.

That said, odds are most of the troopers out there also fail to understand the purpose of Merge or Entering Roadway signs so have at it driving people into walls and the ditch.