Culture Clash

[crokett]

In my job I deal with a lot of different cultures on a weekly basis, some of them are even in different countries. Anyhoo, was wondering if you think it is better to attempt to use their greetings and butcher them or just to be polite as my culture would consider it? For example, the last few days I have been exchanging emails with a team in Japan. All of theirs start with David-San as a greeting to me. I thought about adding it to my replies but decided it might offend them. Then I looked it up and it appears it would be better if I had.

From Wikipedia:
Dropping the honorific - referred to as yobisute (呼び捨て?) - implies a high degree of intimacy and is reserved for one's lover, younger family members, and very close friends,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics#San

[cabinetman]

My opinion is that they address you with their custom. It would not appear common for you to address them in theirs, but with your custom.
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[Kristofor]

In email or on a conference call with co-workers in other countries the conversation will always be in English (I had several years of German in school but near zero opportunity to use it so English is the only language I speak fluently).

However, I will toss out a local greeting Bonjour/Konichiwa/etc. and use local titles/honorifics Madame/Herr/-san etc. when possible. I may be an ethnocentric, uneducated (at least in language), member of the evil american hegemony (I'm being very tongue in cheek) but at least I can try to show some respect for the other cultures. It costs me nothing, and even if you make a small error in tense/whatnot they'll still likely know that you were at least making the attempt.

[JR]

It is good to show sensitivity to others' customs. Addressing them with the -san honorific is a good thing.

OTOH, business people in most other cultures are also trained in American ways. They understand that we don't always have a direct corollary to their customs. They do understand if we are being rude!

JR

[radhak]

Since you have taken the trouble of paying attention to this minor detail, and are considerate enough to reach out to their culture, you would do good by allowing that they might be just as knowledgeable about your culture .

If they have been given any orientation on the American work-style (you bet they have), they'd know that first-name-basis is how an inter-office interaction generally starts here ; it's when you start using 'honey' or 'dearie' that the higher degree of intimacy creeps in - ask any senator with an aide or 'page' .

Of course, you can always play safe and add a Mr/Ms for international communications.

[dbhost]

According to Wikipedia...

Japan

Japanese honorifics are similar to English titles like "Mister" and "Miss"; but in Japanese, which has many honorifics, their use is mandatory in many formal and informal social situations. Japanese grammar as a whole tends to function on hierarchy—honorific stems are appended to verbs and some nouns, and in many cases one word may be exchanged for another word entirely with the same verb- or noun-meaning, but with different honorific connotations. The Japanese personal pronouns are a good example of the honorific hierarchy of the Japanese language—there are five or more words that correspond to each of the English words, "I" and "you".

I would think, that unless you are proficient at Japanese, misuse of the honorific would be worse than using the American custom, say of greeting Hiro Nakamura, you would greet him as Mr. Nakamura instead of Hiro (I watch too much Heroes on TV...).

For the most part in a business setting, unless there is an established relationship, I would not use your counterparts first name as it conveys too casual a relationship.

For example, let's just put a hypothetical out there, and I may be too stuffy about it, but let's just throw this out there for what it's worth... And this is fully fictional, but a useful example...

Folks in my department.
Kelly Able is a DBA in my department.
Robert Bakker is a fellow System Admin in my department.
Charlie Gibson is a software qualtiy test engineer in my department.
Delta Robinson is a Customer Service Agent in our Department.
Marcus Fox is our supervisor.

Since I am on equal footing with them, and work with them in a familiar environment, I would refer to them as...
Kelly, Robert, Charlie, and Delta.

But Marcus being in a superior role would be referred to as Mr. Fox.

Now say for example that same team wasn't with my company, but was representatives of a company that we were using as a vendor, and there was no long term familiarity built up with them, then they would be simply, Mr., Mrs., or Ms. Lastname depending on my familiarity with their status. (Women can be somewhat confusing in this regard, and generally speaking I will initially refer to a woman as Miss. so and so until corrected...

As relationships are formed, they may become Kelly, Robert, Charlie, and Delta, but that takes time...

[cgallery]

I'd go w/o the -san, but I'd say something like:

"Charlie, and BTW, when I say Charlie without the -san it isn't a sign that I want to take our relationship to the next level or anything, but Charlie, can you tell me the IP address of the machine you're having a problem with?"

[Uncle Cracker]

I would imagine Hank will join in with some info, but in my dealings with the Japanese in my martial arts circles, "san" is used often, and seemingly without offense, although it is important to know which name is the given name (Japanese names are often reversed in formalized settings, with the surname first, and the given name second). It could be considered improper to use the given name with the -san suffix unless you were very familiar with the person. For example, let's use the baseball player, Ichiro Suzuki. Despite being known here in the States by his singular given name, Ichiro, in Japan, he is known as Suzuki Ichiro, and one would be more correct addressing him as "Suzuki-san" in that country. "Ichiro-san" would be acceptable to his circle of friends only. Fortunately for me, in the martial arts community, we have the additional luxury of using the term "Sensei" almost universally, so it takes much of the ciphering out of it.

[leehljp]

This is a complex culture for sure. In doing business with Japanese, it is good to know and understand their culture somewhat. Japanese business practices and culture are almost bipolar. They operate one way in outside cultures and another way in their own culture.

"David-San" is a form of respect yet openness, but it is my opinion that it is done more for the American culture side rather than an appeal to be equal level of a working relationship. In general, Japanese don't open themselves to a quick same level co-worker relationships but when they do, it is OK to respond in kind - with a caveat:

Japanese, on American soil will be more open to "David-san" and the same is OK in return to them. HOWEVER, On Japanese soil, forget the first name and go with the family name. They may call you David-san here, but a respect for their culture would be to say "Suzuki-san" instead of "Ichiro-san". If they want you to be in a relaxed frame of mind, they will tell you it is OK. But, when their bosses or company executives are present, it should always revert to the family name followed by san.


NAMES:
In the US, we use given names first and family names second;
In Japan, Family name first, given name second.
(A problem arises when one does not recognize the difference and then a Japanese will give you his name in the US/American format. AT that point, it is prudent to ask "Which is your 'family' name?")


CULTURAL DIFFERENCES for Japanese according to location:

An engineering fellow, Ken married a childhood friend of mine and we became friends. Ken worked for Texas Instruments and was the QC guy for the printer division of TI back when TI sold printer in the mid 90's. Sharp or Sanyo (forget which) manufactured TIs printers about 10 kilometers from where I lived in the Osaka area. When he traveled to Japan to check out QC problems, he would stop by and visit.

One time he told me that he was having trouble communicating even though the Japanese engineers were speaking English. He said they never had this trouble with talks and discussions in the US.
. . . the reason is that Japanese will adapt to the American cultural mindset of being direct (and do similar in other cultures) but when in Japan on their turf, their cultural mindset is expected to be followed.

I told Ken that as an engineer, he should not tell them what the solution to a problem is, but just tell them the problem, frequency of problem, and probable cause - then ask them if they could solve the problem. Japanese, on their turf, do not like straight talk in large business situations, nor like to be told what to do. Their honor is at stake and they need the opportunity to solve it. Ken went back and spoke in the "passive" voice, asked questions as to how they could fix it, and bingo, it worked. (The solution was what he knew, but he had to let them appear as the finders to the solution while on their soil. This is VERY much a cultural thing. )

Recently, I met another friend who came here with the same type of situation. I warned him to offer the problems, breakdown and breakdown rate that was happening in some communications satellites, BUT ask how or what they can do to fix it. Don't offer the solution unless asked. He did, and later said that negotiation went well.

Thinking and speaking in the "passive voice" tense - garners much respect and accomplishes much over here, where as in American culture it appears as weak.



Back to cultural names and respect - don't go overboard. A very high honorific use of words in the wrong situation comes across as the opposite intended meaning - basically as extreme condescension. One thing that IS honored and considered polite is a slight honorific nod of the head and silence, particularly to someone who is an executive, and it works on down to someone who is on the same level. Even to those lower ranked, it will be taken as respect. Silence is a form of great respect that is hard to go wrong with in this culture.

Silence - can get you into trouble also. It will be taken as one who knows and respects Japanese culture deeply, and it is assumed by them that you know much more than actually you do - out of which much more will be expected of you! DAMHIKT!

[cabinetman]

Back to cultural names and respect - don't go overboard. A very high honorific use of words in the wrong situation comes across as the opposite intended meaning - basically as extreme condescension. One thing that IS honored and considered polite is a slight honorific nod of the head and silence, particularly to someone who is an executive, and it works on down to someone who is on the same level. Even to those lower ranked, it will be taken as respect. Silence is a form of great respect that is hard to go wrong with in this culture.

Silence - can get you into trouble also. It will be taken as one who knows and respects Japanese culture deeply, and it is assumed by them that you know much more than actually you do - out of which much more will be expected of you! DAMHIKT!

There may be a mutual respect for the cultures and customs. They may be as unsure about the interaction as we are, and what is fitting. What might be more embarrassing would be to get the proper communication wrong when you thought it was proper.
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[leehljp]

There may be a mutual respect for the cultures and customs. They may be as unsure about the interaction as we are, and what is fitting. What might be more embarrassing would be to get the proper communication wrong when you thought it was proper.
.

If you are referring to the "silence" aspect, - silence in and of itself is a positive attribute in this society. It works when people are sure AND when they are unsure.

Here is a good link that gives a good explanation of the situation:

http://www.rikkinyman.com/training/j...munication.htm

About silence
"The Japanese tend to be suspicious of words; they are more concerned with actions. They believe in using silence as a way of communicating. They also believe it is better to talk too little than too much.

Japanese take special note of the pauses between words. They are comfortable with less talk and longer periods of silence than are Westerners. Japanese may even use the fact that silence disturbs Westerners as a strategy to unnerve them.

If the silent person is the highest ranked Japanese executive at the meeting, it can be a good sign. Or, it might mean he does not want to say something unpleasant."

In many cases, I have been out with equal level coworkers (Americans) who were as good as, or better in the language than me, but who also love being the center of attention and talking all of the time. Well in meetings with government officials, rental and real estate agencies, with business people, I am usually the least talking. I add key sentences here and there. At the end of the meeting inevitably, the Japanese look to me and accord me the respect as the leader of what ever group I am with - simply because of my overall silence and speaking method.