I talked about it a couple times, this time seems for real

[JoeyGee]

Interesting...I checked to see what Lowe's has the price listed as and it's $479.20 in my local area and they are all out of inventory. I changed my store to a Michigan store and the price went to $600, but there are only 2 in a store about an hour away. I am not looking for one, I was just curious on the price. I wonder if they are being closed out.

What made you decide on this one, versus the Ridgid/Craftsman hybrid that goes for $500-$550? Just curious, I have been looking at those two for awhile.

[Cochese]

OK, I've had this for a week, and while I haven't done extensive work with it, I feel I've done enough to warrant an update.

I decided I needed a new, different saw because of the limitations of the 21829, real or perceived. I never liked the SMT, it was never accurate enough for me to rely on. I don't know if that was my fault or the saws, but it's been off for months and I'm going to have to actively look for it to sell. Because of my space, it wasn't something I could leave on all the time, which probably exacerbated the accuracy problem. Because of that, I added the miter table. Unfortunately, there were two problems there. One, there is no T-slot to help retain a miter gauge, limiting depth to only what was available to the depth of the surface. Two, that depth is pretty small. I have an Incra 1000HD gauge, and it wasn't a cheap purchase. I could only use it on stock that was about three inches wide or less, which made it basically useless. Even if the miter table had the T-slot, I could have increased the depth of a safe cut by double.

More than that though was the amount of space the space-saving stand took up. Not an issue on BT3 series saws, the fold-up rough terrain base is fantastic if you fold your saw up often or need to move it around everywhere. I came to do neither. The handles were crushing the dust separator, and the outrigger was an ankle buster. Combine both of those things with a fence that I could never seem to dial in to the accuracy I was looking for, and the want for a new saw was several years ongoing.

The decision to go with the Delta over anything else was a fairly quick one. I dismissed entirely the PC that Lowe's had previously had, and figured the Delta was more of the same. It wasn't until after I read a bunch of reviews that I found it actually might be a really good value. I chose it over the Ridgid or Craftsman because while the alignment issue had been claimed to be fixed, I found that there were still reports of it coming in. It wasn't something I really cared to fight with or deal with. Combine that with the fact that HD had stopped having these on display, and Lowe's had one to play with, helped steer me to it. I really liked the Fence, and it really felt well made and robust. I debated going with the 15 amp version, but couldn't justify the extra $300. 13 amps seems to work fine for the Ridgid anyway.

The saw weighs somewhere in the 250 pound range, and certainly isn't light. However, with the right leverage you can get it in your truck or SUV by yourself, and with a hand truck I was able to get it into my shop. It's pretty well packed, and the only real issue I found with the packaging is that the thinnest section of styrofoam overlays the cast iron. There's so much styrofoam, it took three or four bags to dispose of it all, even partially torn and crushed. As I said, it is well packed. If you were to pick one out that didn't have visible damage, you should be just fine.

Assembly was more straightforward than I expected. There are those who were worried about Delta as a customer service entity, but their seeming constant revision of the instruction manual helps to waylay that fear. The instructions were clear, and my only complaint is that they could use more bags for the parts. There was one quantity discrepancy between what was on hand and what was in the manual, but thankfully the manual was overstating things. Otherwise, no issue there. It does use two piece rails for front and back, but I found that to be of no issue when installing. I had to redo the rear rails, but only because the fence doesn't offer a rear adjustment. Lifting those two rails up a touch gave me the holding power I needed for the fence.

The tables are stamped, but they are of pretty good quality. They make cast for an upper model, I might consider getting them as an add-on later if I ever have an issue. Scratching might be a concern, but they aren't super thin or fragile. The power cord is a bit short, particularly for how my layout is. It's also 16ga, which surprised me a bit, although I can't say why. The legs can be assembled at least two different ways, allowing for the pivot caster to be on the left or right side. Perhaps it could even go front or back, it was never an option for my layout. The fence is either a T2 or a T2-derivative. It's super solid and reassuring. It's also wider than my fence clamps from Rockler, so I haven't sorted out what I'll do when I need to bury a dado. The fence was super easy to adjust laterally, and easy to adjust to get a specific measurement. When I set it to 3", it's 3". I haven't measured again what the difference is over a distance, but earlier it was less than 1/32" over the length of about 12" It would be nothing to get that down even further, and I need to change the battery in my calipers to get precise.

It was pretty dialed in right out of the box. I get no height runout that I can see that plagues the Ridgid, and it was perfectly parallel to at least the right miter slot. I don't have a long enough adjustable square to check the left one yet. The throat plate is pretty decent, but I've already made my own. Not securing it by screws was a completely different world. Took me a bit to get used to the idea, but I'm there now. It comes with the now-standard independent guard system, and an adjustable riving knife. I can pull it in and out, and two different heights. I don't get the higher height setting, because you can use the guard on the lower, non-through cut setting. Perhaps there is some use. I need to extend the cut on the ZCI so that I put the riving knife on again. I've never gone this long without a RK or a guard on. The table is easy to put up on it's wheels and move around. Two straight wheels, one pivot that disengaged to secure against movement.

The disappointments have been limited to this point. There's no ability to cut the at the widest point for 1/4" stock, it just slips under the fence. I'll have to build a table to go on the end, and since I don't need another router table, I have to come up with some other dual use. The dust collection to this point hasn't been good. The cabinet is much more accessible for adjustments than the 21829, and the shroud around the blade is more open. I'll have to eventually seal the cabinet up and extract from below, but I'll reserve judgment until after I get the Shark Guard hooked up. But a lot seems to come out from the bottom. One of the brackets for the fixed wheels was bent out of the box, but I was able to carefully bend it to work. The tape used to cover the through bolt holes on the base was too big, and long term I wonder about the potential to rust. I might have to carefully mask and touch up down the road. The indicated number of bolts in the manual made me think I'd be spending a week waiting for replacement parts until I realized I was ok.

I was a bit concerned it might be down on power, seeing as how I was coming from 15 amp/4800 rpm. Now, we all know how things can be fudged on that account, but doing the actual HP calculations, the difference would be about .22 HP down by math from the 21829. The only stuff I had handy was some soft maple planed down to 1.5" and 12" long. It cut it up like it wasn't there, with no burn marks at all. Normally, I get some burning on the soft maple, and a lot on hard maple. It's the sugar content and the power state of the saw, I've always been prepared to deal with that. I have some hard maple that has been sitting under my carport for the last couple of years, I may give that a go. This saw is rated at 13A at 3600 rpm, or so my memory serves. Even with the saw being deeper and wider, because of how it sits, it takes up almost no more additional space in my shop. It fits like a glove.

I love the accuracy to this point, I love the depth, I love the cast iron (I can finally use magnetic switches if I so desire), I love the standard miter slots, I love the fence. The dust collection is sub-par, which is the only honest complaint I can make. It's a great value at $600, less if you can get a discount or sale. I'd say it is at least as good as the Ridgid, better if you count peace of mind as a definable statistic. I can't wait to make a sled.

[Cochese]

Quick update, I pulled that 8/4 hunk of hard maple out and gave it a whirl. It popped the breaker on the extension cord reel (because I'm dumb and am running everything off one cord for now), then took it a bit slower. I was getting some burn.

Then I realized I still had the 50T blade on, and swapped it for the 24T Marples. Not quite as slick as running the soft maple through, but it didn't bat an eye. Ran it through slightly slower than the soft stuff, but very little burn. Very happy. If it can handle purpleheart similarly, I don't see having any issues with power.



That one little spot is where I had to pause pushing to grab a push stick.

[jussi]

You might have some luck closing up some of the gaps. Is the base open in that model? If so, I've seen people close it off and close the gap in the front with a a piece of ply with magnets glued on. But even then the DC won't be great. I had a c'man 22124 that had a tefc motor and alot of the dust still didn't get sucked into the dc and stayed at the base of the saw. I didn't look forward to getting the shop vac to clean that out. I have PM2000 which has the dc connected to a shroud right under the blade and I still get dust kicked out. If I ever get some free time I need to set up my cyclone and overhead guard which will hopefully help alot.

I see it has a riving knife. Do you need a tool to take it out? Looks like a really nice saw

[Knottscott]

Congrats on the new saw. I'm a fan of lots of space in front of the blade too. Your new induction motor should offer a little more torque than your BT's universal motor, so even though it's lower amperage you it might even feel a bit stronger....power source, blade, alignment, the wood itself, etc., are all factors in that though. Enjoy!

[Cochese]

You might have some luck closing up some of the gaps. Is the base open in that model? If so, I've seen people close it off and close the gap in the front with a a piece of ply with magnets glued on. But even then the DC won't be great. I had a c'man 22124 that had a tefc motor and alot of the dust still didn't get sucked into the dc and stayed at the base of the saw. I didn't look forward to getting the shop vac to clean that out. I have PM2000 which has the dc connected to a shroud right under the blade and I still get dust kicked out. If I ever get some free time I need to set up my cyclone and overhead guard which will hopefully help alot.

I see it has a riving knife. Do you need a tool to take it out? Looks like a really nice saw

The base is like an inverted roll cage, so there is some room to maneuver. The bottom of the cabinet is completely open. I think what is happening is that because the saw 'shield' is so open, chips are bouncing out. It would be too difficult to try and close up that shield area, but simply collect the chips and dust at the bottom. I'm only using a vac, and while it worked well on the 21829, it doesn't work as well here because the 21829 had more shielding around the blade. I've seen someone else close up the bottom with a port, and close up the back where the dust port comes through. The front is harder due to the wheel cutout, but the dust port can be removed. It's something I'll have to experiment with over the course of time.

The riving knife is pretty good, actually. I did figure out the use of the two positions, as the stock guard does drop down significantly in the back to attach to the knife. The higher position helps clear the stock without having the blade obnoxiously high. The knife comes out and adjusts supremely easy. You flip a lever up and a spring holds it in place. Takes about a second to remove. Lee's RK is coming tomorrow for me to compare, and to use the SG.

[Cochese]

The SG knife came yesterday, and here is the old girl on the new saw.



The knife is advertised as .03" thicker than the stock one, but I had to tighten up the adjustment lever bolt for it to fit tight. I'm chalking it up to the SG knife being shorter, and not having two position settings.

[onedash]

BTW: I recently upgraded the saw from 120 to 240v. Wow! What a difference!

Is this normal?I thought that switching to 220 was to reduce the load. Double the voltage is half the amps, right? I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit with grossly oversized wire ran to that outlet so I can upgrade to any saw that could fit in my shop I think. Well, I think it still has to be single phase right? Not really sure what a 3 phase circuit is but I have seen some whoppers that say 3 phase.
Does switching to 220 generally improve performance?

[Knottscott]

Is this normal?I thought that switching to 220 was to reduce the load. Double the voltage is half the amps, right? I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit with grossly oversized wire ran to that outlet so I can upgrade to any saw that could fit in my shop I think. Well, I think it still has to be single phase right? Not really sure what a 3 phase circuit is but I have seen some whoppers that say 3 phase.
Does switching to 220 generally improve performance?

Any benefits from switching to 240v really varies from situation to situation....every situation is a bit different. In theory, there's not supposed to be much difference when going from 120v to 240v, but it's not uncommon to encounter a 120v circuit that suffers from notable voltage loss under heavy load....that can be caused by long runs of under size wire, poor quality wire, many junctions, under supply from the power company, heavy amp draw from a given motor, multiple appliances running off the same circuit, etc. I think the most significant difference is taht 120v circuits derive their power from one hot leg that carries the whole amp load, which limits the peak amperage that the circuit can handle. 240v circuits derive their power from two hot legs that share the amp load, so it's far less likely to ever overtax that circuit given the same load.

I switched two of my 120v saws to 240v some years ago....there was a minor improvement on start up and recovery from load with the first saw, but a notable improvement on the 2nd saw. Even the motors are a variable in the equation. The higher the amp draw of a given 120v motor, the more likely it is that there will be some improvement by switching to 240v. However, if the 120v circuit is capable of delivering the full current needs of a given motor, there's a strong possibility that you'd never notice a difference if you switched to 240v. In a nutshell....it depends.