Wiring and New Shop Flooring

[cwsmith]

I'm slowly moving along, very slowly. Just haven't been up to par these last couple of weeks. But, I've finally got my electrical permit and hopefully will start the wiring here in a few days. Confusion with that though as I've just been touching up on my NEC. That review was prompted by a visit to my local big box store in a quest for buying new outlet boxes.

I really didn't want to use plastic boxes, and so was looking for stud-mountable steel boxes. That was ridiculous... not a 3-1/2 deep bracket box in either Lowes or HD. I'm looking for the kind where there's a stud-mountable bracket on one side of the box. All either store had was 'old work' steel boxes that you set into a wall opening, or plastic boxes of several different sizes, mostly with integral angled nails mountings. The only stud-mountable steel boxes were these rather shallow 12-1/2 cu inch boxes. NEC requires much deeper if I'm to use 12 ga wire, but even if I used 14 ga, that only allows for five conductors... like maybe they're only for single-pole switches? I don't see the available 12-1/2 cu inch boxes as being good for even mounting a single-pole wall switch though.

For 12/2 wire, a middle-of-run receptacle box w/clamps would require a minimun 18 cu-in box, which would be a 2 x 3 x 3.5 [21 cu in.]. Both stores tell me I'd have to order them. Now, I know that those electrical isles are really busy, so I guess I'm a bit confused. Maybe everyone just uses plastic these days. I didn't think this was going to be a big deal, but I guess I'll have to visit one of the exclusively electrical suppliers in the area.

So on to the flooring: I ordered this shed with 12" o/c floor joists, as I want it well supported. Right now my equipment is fairly light weight with the heaviest tool being the Ridgid Jointer. The floor is "LP Smart Flooring" which is some kind of pressure-treated composite. I'd like to add another layer, that would wear better and be easily replaceble should it get damaged or worn.

I'm considering a laminate floor as it's easy to install and fairly inexpensive. Have any of you installed a laminate floor in your shop and/or what are your thoughts. My primary concern would be how slippery that might me with a bit of saw dust on it? I keep my basement shop really clean, with just a shop vac, and I have an HF dust collector for the new shop, so I expect it to be at least as clean. But would something like a laminate floor produce an unseen hazard, that my present OSB basement floor does not?

Your thoughts are appreciated,

CWS

[capncarl]

CWS, I saw a bunch of metal elec boxes at one of the Habitat re-stores last week, some store got rid of them. I didn't notice what size they we, just registered in my head. This may be a source for you. I also saw boxes of switches and recepticals there.

My shop floor is epoxy on concrete and gets slick after I work on my car in it and gets really slick (wax and Armral).
Slick is not good. At least you can pick up a box of laminate flooring and test it, if it feels slick you are out of only the cost of 1 box of materials.

[Bill in Buena Park]

CW,
I believe it was a member here who posted a picture of their shop, in which they had cut down sheets of nice plywood into what ultimately resembled plank and peg flooring. With a coat of finish (polyurethane, etc.) you get the nice look of wood grain with the tool-friendly properties of wood and should be the same slip-resistance as OSB. I too would wonder about slip conditions on standard laminate flooring.

[twistsol]

When we remodeled I set up the miter saw in the laundry room. I can tell you from experience that sawdust on a Pergo floor is very slippery.

[poolhound]

My 2 cents on flooring is to NOT do laminate. It may look good but I think it wil be too slippy. My shed shop has basic ply floor which I coated with a floor paint. Sweeps and cleans easily and if it marks I just add some more paint.

[atgcpaul]

When we remodeled I set up the miter saw in the laundry room. I can tell you from experience that sawdust on a Pergo floor is very slippery.

Yep. I have the same experience with the vinyl plank flooring in our kitchen. A little sawdust on it and it's a little like a skating rink.

[Condoman44]

When I do new wiring I like to use the 4" square boxes with 1 or 2 device plaster rings. So much easier to work with 12-2 in the extra space and stud mountable with screws instead of nails.

[cwsmith]

Thanks guys,

The laminate flooring is definitely off the agenda (that was easy, wasn't it ). The idea of laminate had been suggested, and after looking at it's cost from a local 'surplus' store, I thought it might well be worth investigating. But, I did notice how it felt when passing my hand over it, and was concerned that a sprinkling of sawdust might make is as slippery as a waxed floor... definitely not a good idea when working around power tools and sharp objects!

So, what better place to investigate that than here on the great forum of knowledge and experince... Thanks!

A layer of plywood sounds more likely, though I've also thought of using pine planking. The ply would be less expensive both in time and money, I think. When I converted the attached garage, at the Painted Post house, to a family room, I installed 2 x 6 joists with insulation and then 3/4 T&G ply flooring and then carpeted. Twenty years later that floor is as flat as ever. So similar ply would probably be the best choice (sans carpeting of course ).

The electrical box situation will be resolved later this week. I am considering using a couple of 4" square boxes at the two primary tool locations, that will resolve part of the problem. The overhead lights (4-ft florescents) I want to plug in and I've had very good luck with those cheap 'Lights of America' units from Walmart ($11 ea). I like the LED shop lights, but they are at least in the short term, much more expensive.

I bought really expensive ($100+ each) florescent fixtures for our kitchen here. At the same same time I put those cheap Walmart lights in the basement shop and laundry room. I've lost one cheap light in the laundry room (a quick $11 replacement), but I've had to replace the ballast in every single kitchen fixture @ $30 a crack. They have all failed within a definite operating time which is about seven years of use.

So, these fixtures in the shop will be plugged into switchable outlets, I'll probably use plastic boxes for those as they are not subject to continual plugging and unplugging like with power tools; hence the steel boxes as I think they'd stand up to the mechanical stress better.

Again, thanks to you all for your suggestions and experience,

CWS

[Carpenter96]

I used Dri-core for my shop floor (2 car garage) and I have a 1 foot slope from the door to the back, I found with a little sawdust I was sliding down the slope so I had to put a PVC with anti-slip coating. When I picked up the material from the manufacturer they gave me tour and they had Dri-core for the office floor with urethane finish.

Regards Bob

[atgcpaul]

The electrical box situation will be resolved later this week. I am considering using a couple of 4" square boxes at the two primary tool locations, that will resolve part of the problem. The overhead lights (4-ft florescents) I want to plug in and I've had very good luck with those cheap 'Lights of America' units from Walmart ($11 ea). I like the LED shop lights, but they are at least in the short term, much more expensive.

I bought really expensive ($100+ each) florescent fixtures for our kitchen here. At the same same time I put those cheap Walmart lights in the basement shop and laundry room. I've lost one cheap light in the laundry room (a quick $11 replacement), but I've had to replace the ballast in every single kitchen fixture @ $30 a crack. They have all failed within a definite operating time which is about seven years of use.

I am slowly replacing the 4' florescents in my shop with LEDs. I bought 2 of the Feit LED lights from Costco and already installed those. I paid $30/fixture but they're on sale for $25 now.

I also just converted two dimming T12 lights (Lights of America brand from Lowes) to direct wire LED from here:

https://www.earthled.com/collections/led-t8-tube-replacements-replace-your-fluorescent-t8-t10-t12-lamps-with-led/products/luceco-led-fluorescent-replacement-tube-generation-2-4-ft-18-watt-ballast-bypass-direct-wire-full-glass-body?variant=13929188100

The instructions say you need to use non-shunted tombstones, and it turns out the Lights of America ones are non-shunted. It was a pretty easy conversion.

I also changed out my overhead kitchen light that uses the old style ballast with the same LEDs. That was an even easier conversion than the Lights of America ones.

All these lights have only been in use for a week but fingers crossed the life span is what they claim. They are definitely brighter than the originals and the instant on is nice.

Paul

[poolhound]

I also have 3 of the Feit 4' LED shop lights from Costco and they work great. If they dont then the great thing about Costco is just take them back! The first ones I got did not have a pull switch which was a bit of a pain but the new ones do.

[Charlie R]

My shop alternates 4 ft shop lights and 100 w incandescent bulbs because the shop lights don't work in cold weather (the shop isn't heated). Do the LED lights work when they are cold?

[twistsol]

The LED lights I have work fine in the cold. We have some installed outside and they come on instantly. They do take a minute or two to come up to full brightness when it is below zero but they probably start around 90% brightness. The CFL's we had in the same fixture would come on in the coldest weather but would take up to half an hour to come up to full brightness.


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[JimD]

I use CFLs in my shop and in several outside fixtures. It doesn't get terribly cold here, mostly around freezing at night in the winter. The CFLs come on quickly. An old one takes awhile to get to full brightness (a minute or so). The newer ones take seconds. I don't see the benefit of LEDs to justify their much higher price. They are often less efficient, not more. They may last longer but they also may not. I am interested but I will wait until the price comes down. I may put a few lights into the great room for additional light. They will be 16.5 feet off the floor so I might use LEDs hoping to not have to change them.

There is a place here (Southeastern Salvage, they are a small chain) that sells thin (5/16) solid oak pre-finished flooring for about $1/ft. It looks pretty nice, the finish is durable and the cost is certainly reasonable. I put about 800 ft2 in a house we were selling. It takes a special stapler but it installs similarly to normal 3/4 flooring. But it seems like overkill in a shop to me. Good OSB would trap a bunch of dust but if you finish it it should vacuum up well. Plywood would trap less dust. Either seems nice enough for a shop. My floor is unfinished concrete.

I use plastic boxes and they are plenty durable. The outlet is the weak link for plugging and unplugging, not the box. They do not conduct electricity. A staple into a stud near the box clamps the wire just fine. I wouldn't waste money on metal except for ceiling fans (doubt you plan those). I used my last shop about 15 years and it was all plastic boxes. I wired my current shop and it is all plastic. It's plenty sturdy for outlets and switches.

[cwsmith]

Thanks again to everyone,

It may well be that I use plastic boxes for everything, as the steel 20 cu in boxes simply don't seem to be readily available, and like you mention, the plastic boxes are a fraction of the price. I'll be checking one more local supplier tomorrow, but I expect his price to be close to $5 a box, if he has them. I guess I have a tendency to over-build, or at least stick with the things I'm more comfortable with from the past.

Right now, I'm going with 4-ft florescent's; cheap, easily replaced units that are about $11. I've currently got those in my garage and in my basement shop and they have served much better than the fixtures in the kitchen that cost more than 10-times as much. In the garage, I've seen temperatures close to zero, and they still work fine, albeit a little slow on warming up and coming to full illumination.

I seriously considered the LED shop lights, mostly because I thought they'd be far less power consuming. They are less, but not only by about 15 watts, IIRC. The deciding factor for me, was that in side by side comparison, their "brighter" wasn't all that much, but the glare was a killer of the issue. My local Lowes has several LED lights very poorly positioned when you come down that isle... they are almost blinding, and left me with 'spots' for almost an hour. The shop light LED's are less glaring, but it left me liking the old fashioned tube florescent's a heckuva lot better.

I think a plywood floor will work just fine. Perhaps a coat of poly would make it look better, if that is even necessary; afterall, it is a shop (but the artist in my want it to look good too, as long as it isn't slippery). I mentioned that I have a OSB floor here in the basement, actually it is the Dri-Cor product. Works great over the old concrete but it is a lot more expensive now than it was when I bought it ($3 then, $7 now, per 2 x 2 ft block). The shed is factory built and has a composite floor, so I don't need the Dri-Cor for it's vapor-barrier advantage.

I've finished my floor layout of the tools, and the wiring diagram; got the electrical permit and have pinned down the size boxes that I need. Already purchased a couple of light fixtures, though I'll need four more before I'm done. Now's the time to buy the boxes and get going on the actual wiring so I can get the rough-in inspection done as soon as possible. Weather forecast for Saturday is going to be COLD... like 10°. Maybe next week might be better.

Thanks, very much, to all of you for your kind recommendations,

CWS