Smallerizing the shop

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  • twistsol
    Veteran Member
    • Dec 2002
    • 2893
    • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
    • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

    Smallerizing the shop

    This may be blasphemy, but I think I have too many tools, or at least too many that I don't use often. I'm thinking of selling my HF Bandsaw, HF Drill Press, my BT3100 with a wide table and home built router setup and replacing those with a used ShopSmith. I was hoping someday to get my Dad's Mark V but that went to my nephew.

    Until I picked up my festool track saw, I depended on my wide table BT3100 for breaking down large sheet goods and dados. Now it is pretty much only used for ripping small parts narrower than the track. This makes the limitation of the ShopSmith table size irrelevant. My drill press and bandsaw are rarely used and to be fair the ShopSmith bandsaw is superior as is the drill press.

    Any thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
    Chr's
    __________
    An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
    A moral man does it.
  • schloff
    Established Member
    • Jan 2007
    • 229
    • Southern Middle TN
    • Powermatic 64 (BT3000 RIP)

    #2
    I had a friend who loved his ShopSmith. But he was always complaining about setup every time he had to change a process. From that moment on, I've always been a believer of dedicated machinery.

    Granted, his machine was a precision instrument and help create some wonderful pieces. They are very well engineered machines. But going from drill press (boring machine) to saw, to lathe, to [fill in the blank] seemed to be time consuming. I can see having one for a few tasks, but a whole project was a bit cumbersome.

    I'll always have a dedicated drill press (or 2) and lathe. And table saw. And planer. ...and jointer. and RAS.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Comment

    • cwsmith
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2005
      • 2737
      • NY Southern Tier, USA.
      • BT3100-1

      #3
      Setup time would be biggest concerns. I have a tendency to bounce back and forth between tools when I'm on a project and I think I'd be fretting a bit if I had to constantly tear down and re-setup to do a procedure.

      CWS
      Think it Through Before You Do!

      Comment

      • dbhost
        Slow and steady
        • Apr 2008
        • 9209
        • League City, Texas
        • Ryobi BT3100

        #4
        I do like the concept of a one size fits all home woodshop needs kind of tool, but I am personally not comfortable with the shopsmith for several reasons....

        #1. The table adjusts for blade height and angle, not the arbor. This seems incredibly unsafe to me. Perhaps I am wrong, but it honestly scares the snot out of me.
        #2. Setup time between operations seems, again tedious.
        #3. Capacities on the add ins like jointer, planer, band saw etc... are extremely limited, and as such, are very limiting to the type of work pieces you can work with.

        Having said that, fairly easy to knock together jigs and sleds and you can get by with far less in the way of shop tool capacity for most work, where the shopsmith would shine. But that leaves me back to the annoying problem #2 that I could live with, and the scary at least impression wise problem #1 that is really what keeps a Shop Smith out of my shop...

        If they would come up with a raise / lower / tilting arbor setup for the table saw portion of the Shop Smith, and perhaps made changeovers a tad easier to do, I would probably liquidate my BT the lathe, bandsaw, jointer, and planer, and stash the SS in a corner of the garage and actually be able to use my garage for something silly like, oh I don't know, storing cars?
        Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

        Comment

        • JimD
          Veteran Member
          • Feb 2003
          • 4187
          • Lexington, SC.

          #5
          I got rid of my bandsaw when we moved but it was partially because it wasn't a very good bandsaw. I will probably replace it at some point. Either a HF I will tune up or a Grizzly I will hope to do less on. My solution to the BT3100 was to pull the wide table kit and cut down the base. I like having it, and used it a lot last weekend on a jig for the track saw, but I don't need the wide table kit. I still have my Craftsman floor standing drill press. It is an old one with only two pulleys and about a 10 step pulley. I like it and plan to have it for as long as God keeps me here. I wanted my father in laws shopsmith but after reviewing it's capabilities I also wasn't sad it went to somebody else.

          I think we all have to right size at some point and our way of doing that is likely to vary. My biggest concern is whether the ShopSmith is good at much other than a lathe and maybe a drill press. But I've never used one so I really don't know.

          Comment

          • dbhost
            Slow and steady
            • Apr 2008
            • 9209
            • League City, Texas
            • Ryobi BT3100

            #6
            I saw one demoed at the Woodworking show in Katy Texas a few years back now. I must admit the guy that was doing the demo made it look easy as tripping over a log to use. Like I said, my main concern is the table saw arbor being fixed, so that the table has to move around the blade instead of the other way around...

            Then again, Dadoes can be cut with a router, a track and a miter saw can replace almost all the other functions of a table saw. So that kind of kills my objection there...

            Heck, even a pretty simple straight edge breakdown jig and careful setup will do wonders for your straight cuts...
            Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

            Comment

            • twistsol
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2002
              • 2893
              • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
              • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

              #7
              I know the table saw is the weak function on these, and between my track saw, SCMS, and routers, the only time is use a table saw is for ripping cabinet door parts and face frame parts. All right angles and fairly small. I'm going to look at a used one tonight.
              Chr's
              __________
              An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
              A moral man does it.

              Comment

              • woodturner
                Veteran Member
                • Jun 2008
                • 2047
                • Western Pennsylvania
                • General, Sears 21829, BT3100

                #8
                Originally posted by twistsol
                I'm going to look at a used one tonight.
                Which model? There are several - the Mark V is the more recent one, the 10ER is earlier, and if you are lucky, you might find a Mark VII, but they are pretty rare. They also just introduced a new Mark VII, but it's completely different.

                The Mark V is a good sander, drill press, lathe, and horizontal bore, but I don't use mine as a table saw. The 10ER works pretty well also, and are typically available for much less - I paid $50 for mine, used. I'm not a big fan of the add-ons, due to minimal capacity and I'm not impressed with the accuracy or quality. I think you would be better off with a lunchbox planer, small table mount jointer, and table bandsaw, on a mount and cabinet that mounts one tool at a time and stores the rest.
                --------------------------------------------------
                Electrical Engineer by day, Woodworker by night

                Comment

                • jussi
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 2162

                  #9
                  I've never used a shopsmith and while I also have a small shop, as cwsmith pointed out, setup time is the reason I never considered one. Not only when you move from one step to the next but say you get say you finish with the tablesaw and setup the bandsaw and then realize you forgot you had to make another cut on the tablesaw. Now multiply that with how many times you forget a step in a project. For me, it would be alot and super frustrating.

                  Maybe you can compromise and keep the machines you frequently use and just replace the others.

                  If you can find a deal on a used one and have way to store your other equipment safely somewhere else (cover backyard, storage unit, friends garage, etc) I would try out the shopsmith and see how you like it. You don't want to sell all your equipment then find out you absolutely hate using the shopsmith.
                  I reject your reality and substitute my own.

                  Comment

                  • twistsol
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 2893
                    • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
                    • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

                    #10
                    Last night I picked up a ShopSmith Mark V 510 with bandsaw, jointer, biscuit jointer, 25 years of wordsmith magazine, 4 boxes of books, and 3 crates of SS accessories that I haven't even had time to look at yet.

                    The all city garage sale is three weeks away and I have Labor day week off to spend in the shop so I'll be able to see how it works for me.

                    I'll report back on how it went after I've had a chance to use it a while.
                    Chr's
                    __________
                    An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
                    A moral man does it.

                    Comment

                    • dbhost
                      Slow and steady
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 9209
                      • League City, Texas
                      • Ryobi BT3100

                      #11
                      It will be interesting to hear... Keep us posted!
                      Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

                      Comment

                      • capncarl
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 3564
                        • Leesburg Georgia USA
                        • SawStop CTS

                        #12
                        I believe that Shopsmith is why a lot of men get out of woodworking. They buy one with high expectations and then find out about the changeovers, slowly and quietly quit using it because their wives would have a fit it they complained about it, with all the money they spent. It's quietly pushed to the back of the garage to collect dust and eventually their kids sell the machine when they settle their estate.

                        Comment

                        • twistsol
                          Veteran Member
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 2893
                          • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
                          • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

                          #13
                          Originally posted by capncarl
                          I believe that Shopsmith is why a lot of men get out of woodworking. They buy one with high expectations and then find out about the changeovers, slowly and quietly quit using it because their wives would have a fit it they complained about it, with all the money they spent. It's quietly pushed to the back of the garage to collect dust and eventually their kids sell the machine when they settle their estate.
                          Whether it is because of the changeover time or not, a truer statement has never been made. The guy I bought it from purchased it new in '92, and used it for one project and some sanding. It sat unused ever since. Most of the accessories are still shrink wrapped in original packaging as are most of the manuals. You could see the delight on his wife's face as I was taking it out of their garage. I quickly checked the price list of the major components I picked up last weekend and the total is $4800+ and I spent about 20% of that.

                          I'm not that concerned about the changeovers, I weighed all that for years. With my travel schedule, for me to get anything done in the shop in the few hours I have on a weekend. Every step is meticulously planned. The table saw function scares me a bit on these and has ever since I was a kid. I'm not above being wrong, either. If wrong, I can always pick up another table saw in the future.
                          Chr's
                          __________
                          An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
                          A moral man does it.

                          Comment

                          • twistsol
                            Veteran Member
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 2893
                            • Cottage Grove, MN, USA.
                            • Ridgid R4512, 2x ShopSmith Mark V 520, 1951 Shopsmith 10ER

                            #14
                            Shop smith Update:

                            After having the ShopSmith for almost a year, I've concluded that the Bandsaw and Drill Press are both much better than what I had and I never had a lathe before so that's a bonus. The tablesaw just plain sucks. It's hard to set up, dust collection is horrible and it is too high for me to use comfortably and I'm 6 feet tall. The experiment wasn't a complete failure.

                            A few weeks ago I bought a Ridgid R4512 and so far I'm very happy with it even though in my ham fisted way I already managed to break the power switch.
                            Chr's
                            __________
                            An ethical man knows the right thing to do.
                            A moral man does it.

                            Comment

                            • JimD
                              Veteran Member
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 4187
                              • Lexington, SC.

                              #15
                              Thanks for the feedback. I could use a lathe, maybe I'll see a shopsmith for a good price and pick it up for that.

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