New (Old) Compressor

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  • pelligrini
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2007
    • 4217
    • Fort Worth, TX
    • Craftsman 21829

    New (Old) Compressor

    I picked up an older 20 Gallon compressor Saturday and I haven't been able to find out anything about it online yet. I thought it was 1 1/2 HP when I looked at the motor plate, but it is only a 1/2 HP Wagner motor. I don't think it is going to put out the CFM that I wanted, but it sure does run quiet though. I have a Porter Cable 4 gal Jetstream Side Stack and it is really loud, extremely loud.

    My new compressor is oiled. I don't know anything about these types of compressors. The dipstick shows full. My neighbor took very good care of it. Is there anything I should look for and/or do maintenance wise? The motor also has a couple oiling caps. I wish it had a petcock for draining.

    I think I got a decent deal. The lady preparing the house for an estate sale offered me $85, which I thought was great for a 1 1/2 HP (or so I thought) old steel. I accepted the offer (I hate dickering). I ended up offering $100 for the compressor and about 50 board feet of wood (mostly white oak).
    Attached Files
    Erik
  • RAFlorida
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2008
    • 1179
    • Green Swamp in Central Florida. Gator property!
    • Ryobi BT3000

    #2
    That's not too bad a deal you got Eric.

    And with the amount of BF of oak, you did fine. I think you should do okay with the CFM on that unit, unless you're going to operate several pneumatics tools at once.
    I like the white oak guard dog you have protecting your investment! He'll tear a leg off for sure!

    Comment

    • cabinetman
      Gone but not Forgotten RIP
      • Jun 2006
      • 15218
      • So. Florida
      • Delta

      #3
      That looks like a good old one. Not much maintenance to it but changing the oil, and cleaning the air filter. You might just take some soapy water around all the fittings to check for leaks. Check the gauge to see where it cuts off.

      I'm surprised to hear it has a dip stick. Most just have just a removable fill plug that allows a view into the crankcase. I'm also surprised it does not have a petcock for draining.

      .

      Comment

      • cwsmith
        Veteran Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 2737
        • NY Southern Tier, USA.
        • BT3100-1

        #4
        That plate seems to indicate mostly motor data... is there another plate on the tank or perhaps on the base of the compressor itself?

        Oil-lubricated compressors are traditionally cast iron, at least for the cylinder and running gear parts. These provide significantly longer life (3 to 4 X) over non-lubricated aluminum units.

        Did you mean that there was no "petcock" on the tank, for draining condensate? If not, you should check the tank for water, and I might even go so far as having it pressure checked.

        (I just did a Google for "Wagner G56 compressor" and got this motor on E-bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WAGNER-THREE...-/140346881643 )

        CWS
        Last edited by cwsmith; 08-19-2012, 03:24 PM.
        Think it Through Before You Do!

        Comment

        • Pappy
          The Full Monte
          • Dec 2002
          • 10453
          • San Marcos, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 (x2)

          #5
          The HP rating of the motor is really not that relevant on a compressor. All it has to do is spin the head pulley at the required RPM. I have a Sanborn Black Max oiled compressor similar to this one that was bought in about 1982 and is still going strong.
          Don, aka Pappy,

          Wise men talk because they have something to say,
          Fools because they have to say something.
          Plato

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20913
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #6
            Originally posted by Pappy
            The HP rating of the motor is really not that relevant on a compressor. All it has to do is spin the head pulley at the required RPM. I have a Sanborn Black Max oiled compressor similar to this one that was bought in about 1982 and is still going strong.
            The HP is quite important for the performance of the compressor. Provided the compressor itself is capable, a certain HP level is required to put up so many CFM at so much pressure.

            There not being that much magic in compressor design, generally a 2 HP motor (around 15 Amps at 120V AC) is the maximum that can be run off a residential circuit and that in turn can power a compressor to a maximum of around 2-3 CFM at 90 PSI or around 4 CFM at 40 PSI. The specs vary a bit from make to make but that's the range you will find.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • gerti
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2003
              • 2233
              • Minnetonka, MN, USA.
              • BT3100 "Frankensaw"

              #7
              I like the little fellow guarding the wood!

              Comment

              • cabinetman
                Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                • Jun 2006
                • 15218
                • So. Florida
                • Delta

                #8
                Originally posted by cwsmith

                (I just did a Google for "Wagner G56 compressor" and got this motor on E-bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WAGNER-THREE...-/140346881643 )

                CWS
                The motor in the link is listed as a three phase motor.

                .

                Comment

                • cabinetman
                  Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                  • Jun 2006
                  • 15218
                  • So. Florida
                  • Delta

                  #9
                  Originally posted by pelligrini
                  I wish it had a petcock for draining.
                  If the compressor works well, it might be worthwhile to take it to a compressor repair shop and have a drain/petcock installed.

                  .

                  Comment

                  • pelligrini
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 4217
                    • Fort Worth, TX
                    • Craftsman 21829

                    #10
                    Thanks for the input thus far.

                    There is hardly any other identification on the compressor other than the motor plate. There is an embossed X2-27 on the cylinder casting and also stamped K2 under it. The rear crankcase plate has 6973 stamped on it.

                    The intake filter is just an oiled disk. Probably ought to upgrade that, especially if I move it to my shop. How often does the oil need to be changed?

                    The Square-D pressure box reliably cut the motor off at 100 PSI (which was the max on the pressure dial) and on again around 40 PSI over several cycles. It doesn't have an on/off switch. I was using a couple extension cords to turn it off and on while I was standing on the other side of a brick wall during initial testing. I was getting a little nervous as it was approaching 90 PSI. It took a while to fill, but I'm just used to my little 4 gal. compressor.

                    There's a big plug on the bottom. A 13/16 wrench fits it, but I couldn't get it to budge. It looks like the previous owner used the bigger plug on the top end to drain it, as the end near the wheels had a lot of the paint chipped off and scratch marks. I don't have a 1 1/2" wrench for the top plug. From the teeth marks it looks like someone used a pipe wrench on it.

                    I'm sure it will work great for my nailers and staplers, and maybe finishing once I get a gun. I was really wanting something to drive my pressurized sand blaster easily. During testing I was using some high CFM tools like my air gun and die grinder. I didn't expect the compressor to keep up with them, but I hoped it would have more then it did.

                    That's Tozo in front of the wood with the plastic gutter piece in her mouth. I guess she couldn't find any of her rocks or PVC pipe sections. She really did end up with a large portion of the Bassett genes her mom and dad have, still got the Lab head though. If anyone can tell my why she was called Tozo, they would get a gold star.
                    Erik

                    Comment

                    • cabinetman
                      Gone but not Forgotten RIP
                      • Jun 2006
                      • 15218
                      • So. Florida
                      • Delta

                      #11
                      Originally posted by pelligrini

                      There's a big plug on the bottom. A 13/16 wrench fits it, but I couldn't get it to budge.
                      You could squirt some WD-40 on it. Let it sit. Use a heat gun on the surrounding metal, and/or ice up the plug, and take it out. If you have an adjustable wrench and a breaker bar you could get some more leverage. You could also use a galv pipe as a breaker bar. If you get it out, you could get fittings to downsize (if need be) to install a petcock.

                      How much you use it would depend on the frequency of oil change. For occasional use I would do it every six months.

                      .

                      Comment

                      • dbhost
                        Slow and steady
                        • Apr 2008
                        • 9209
                        • League City, Texas
                        • Ryobi BT3100

                        #12
                        Originally posted by pelligrini
                        There's a big plug on the bottom. A 13/16 wrench fits it, but I couldn't get it to budge. It looks like the previous owner used the bigger plug on the top end to drain it, as the end near the wheels had a lot of the paint chipped off and scratch marks. I don't have a 1 1/2" wrench for the top plug. From the teeth marks it looks like someone used a pipe wrench on it.
                        Soak that sucker in penetrating oil for at least 24 hours, PUT ON SAFETY glasses because I am about to tell you to do something that is potentially dangerous...

                        ***WARNING*** what I am about to tell you to do could cause damage to people and property. Keep kids, pets, and spectators away, wear long pants / sleeves, and safety glasses. There is a potential for flying metal scrapnel here..

                        First, fully discharge the pressure from the tank. (turn the compressor off, and put a male quck connect in the coupler, that should bleed it off...)


                        Second. Take a ball peen hammer, and set the ball end right on that plug / nut thing a ma bob... I am assuming it is a NPT pipe plug type gizmo... Well put that ball end right on it, and give the other end a few sharp, but not gorilla hard blows with another hammer.

                        NOW try unscrewing the plug...

                        That's a trick I learned decades ago working on auto brakes. Even in the south, brake components rust, a LOT... And whacking it with a hammer directly tends to damage components, but whacking a ball peen hammer, or bolt, or whatnot that is on the fastener is typically just enough of a shock in the thread gulleys to break the bond of the rust loose to get the fastener to move... It helps get rusted lug nuts off when the biggest impact wrench in the house wouldn't budge it...
                        Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

                        Comment

                        • pelligrini
                          Veteran Member
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 4217
                          • Fort Worth, TX
                          • Craftsman 21829

                          #13
                          It is a little rusted, and I saw some teflon tape remenants. I do need to get some more liquid wrench. I might try giving it a couple wacks, after I find my pipe/cheater bar. I don't have any fuel for the torches, and I've never had good luck heating things to get them apart.
                          Erik

                          Comment

                          • sscherin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 772
                            • Kennewick, WA, USA.

                            #14
                            Don't get to discouraged with the HP rating on the motor..

                            Remember this is most likely a true 1/2 hp motor rated to run at that load all day..
                            Going by the plate specs it stacks up with a Baldor 1/2 Hp motor


                            Most of today's equipment is rated at max amps and peak power.. Not continuous..
                            William's Law--
                            There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it
                            cannot be solved by brute strength and ignorance.

                            Comment

                            • mpc
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2005
                              • 979
                              • Cypress, CA, USA.
                              • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                              #15
                              The pressure sensing switch cut the motor off at 100 psi and didn't restart it until the tank ran down to 40psi? That's a pretty wide a spread; wider than any I've run across. 100 & 80 psi are more typical trigger points for older compressors designed to run typical "90 psi rated" air tools; many current compressors turn off at 125 or 150 psi and back on well above 100 psi. With the unit unplugged, see if you can open up the control switch/module and give it a cleaning. It probably has some dried gunk jamming it a bit.

                              Does the compressor have any safeties? Look near the top of the tank for a "pop off" type of pressure relief valve; when the tank is nearly empty grab it and tug on it (most have a small ring just for this purpose) to make sure it a) moves easily and retracts properly, and b) that air flows out of the tank when you pull it open. If it doesn't have any such relief valve I'd "T" into the line between the tank and regulator and add a 125psi pressure relief valve of some sort. One designed to replace a water heater relief valve might work.

                              Another trick for separating rusted together or otherwise jammed together nuts/bolt/plug deals: heat from a torch (MAPP gas torches are hotter than propane and reasonably priced) around the frozen plug to expand that metal and then rapidly cool the nut/plug by spritzing it with water or carefully holding a sopping wet rag against it. Just don't touch anything with your hands/fingers! I do this as "try #2" if the torch alone isn't enough to free the parts. PB Blaster is another good penetrate, Toyota parts departments sell a spray can that's legendary. If you use a big breaker bar, or breaker bar + pipe extension, be careful you don't distort the tank itself. If you really need that much leverage, it might be worth it to haul the tank to a car repair garage and ask if they'll try their impact gun on the plug. Impact guns "hit hard" but in short bursts that don't stress the tank as much... and the sudden shock/vibration helps break the parts free.

                              mpc

                              Comment

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