Which block plane?

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  • radhak
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2006
    • 3058
    • Miramar, FL
    • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

    Which block plane?

    Today I realized I have been struggling with a cheap block plane for far too long. It's a Stanley, and I think I bought it at HD, and it used to work okay (because I did not really use it much as I did not get great results).

    Recently I dismantled it for sharpening, and now I am unable to put it back together! After a couple of days of this, I havta admit maybe I dropped a part somewhere and did not know it: I cannot get the blade to sit sufficiently angled (20°); in fact I can't get it to align with the mouth at all.

    Anyway, at this point I just want to look forward and ahead. I have a pending treat for myself, so would like to buy a really good block plane. I'd heard LV's Veritas are good, but which one: the regular, the low-angle, or the fancy DX60? (Those last are really pricey!)

    I have also heard mention of Lie-Nielsen planes, and had thought they were more expensive, but they seem to be comparable cost : the 102 or the 60 1/2. Any thoughts? Am I missing better ones?

    Or should I leave more money to my kids' college funds and instead just pick a cheap plane from HD?

    Btw: the only other planes I have is a Stanely #4 I got at a garage sale and a Veritas Shoulder plane (and wow, it's pure gold!). The block plane will be for small adjustments, finishing touches or chamfering.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - Aristotle
  • mpc
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 979
    • Cypress, CA, USA.
    • BT3000 orig 13amp model

    #2
    I don't have any Lee-Valley/Veritas planes but the Lie-Nielsen planes that I have are excellent. LN planes were the first buy-and-use planes that I tried and I've been quite happy with them... never tried LV as a result. I have LN's "low angle" block plane and their rabbeting block plane. I tend to use the rabbeting plane more often - especially for trimming large tenons as it'll get into the shoulders of them unlike a regular block plane.

    However, unless a plane is horribly warped, has a cracked (flexing) body, etc. it should work reasonably well if properly sharpened and assembled. I have an old Stanley from a swap meet that works quite well too. It's not as comfortable to hold/use as the LN but it does make shavings as easily as the LN. So I'm a bit mystified by your experience. Block planes are about the fewest-parts style hand planes too - seems it would be obvious if a piece was missing from the frog area.

    A few questions on your plane: how does the blade "link" to the adjuster mechanism - if there is such a mechanism? Many block planes use the old Stanley setup with a row of parallel slots. A gear, or toothed piece, interlocks with these slots... that piece in turn moves fore/aft as a knob/screw is turned. Simpler planes don't have any "mechanical" link like this; you adjust the blade in/out manually. These are harder to adjust reliably. Also, is the blade bevel up or down? Most block planes have a very narrow throat so the blade only fits one way - typically "bevel up." Can you post a pic of the plane assembled and in pieces? Maybe we can help determine if something is in fact missing. Many Stanley-style block planes use a small lever on top of the cap piece to clamp the blade; if the nearby screw is too loose then the blade won't get clamped tightly enough leading to bad performance. If it's too tight it's hard to make fine adjustments to the blade.

    Block planes are probably more forgiving of a sole that isn't dead-flat compared to other types of small hand planes. As long as the sole area immediately in front of and behind the blade is flat and as low as the very front and very back of the sole it ought to make fine shavings. Having the sole bulged downwards (towards the workpiece) between the throat and either end of the plane is badness. Having slight depressions in those spots is not a big deal.

    The issue with cheaper hand plane types (like HD's "Buck Brothers") is that a) they often aren't machined really flat so you need to spend more time flattening the sole and b) the blade material is cheaper/softer so they don't hold a sharp edge as long. Quality aftermarket blades are available for such planes and Stanley-style antiques.

    mpc

    Comment

    • capncarl
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2007
      • 3564
      • Leesburg Georgia USA
      • SawStop CTS

      #3
      I have several Stanley 9 1/2s and 18s that date back to the early1900s that I really like. I picked them up at estate sales and car shows for $20- $30 each. I inspected each plane for cracks, correct parts, rust and overall condition, and replaced their iron (blade) with new from Highland Woodworking. These models have always been very popular so they probably have gotten lots of use. Most of the usefull life of the iron has been sharpened away by previous owners so $15 worth of new modern steel iron revives them. Maybe they will be around for another 100 years!
      capncarl
      Last edited by capncarl; 11-04-2017, 02:27 PM. Reason: Spell checker caught me!

      Comment

      • radhak
        Veteran Member
        • Apr 2006
        • 3058
        • Miramar, FL
        • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

        #4
        Thanks mpc - your post made me re-examine the plane and I managed to assemble it right this time. There was some sawdust trapped between the front part of the throat plate, and also, I discovered the right way to slide that front part for the correct spacing: once I fixed both, I have a working block plane again!

        Still, I think this plane is too finicky and not as productive as I believe it could be, so I will want to buy a better one; I know Stanley have a long history and are well liked, but I am still leaning towards LN or LV.
        It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
        - Aristotle

        Comment

        • cwsmith
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2005
          • 2737
          • NY Southern Tier, USA.
          • BT3100-1

          #5
          I have a few planes, all of them cheap! I have two block planes from Sears (a red 107-37031 and pale green whatever that has a Craftsman blade but is missing the forward knob and iron lock nut [no lever]). A few years ago I found a really nice Stanley #3 which I've restored. It was $7.00; and earlier this summer I was given a similar # 3 which belonged to my FIL's father. It's sort of a wreck, but hopefully like the $7 one, should come out okay after I clean it up. The only name I have found on it though is, "Hudson Forge" which is on the blade. Considering the late relative's ownership, it might be from as far back as the 30's, but I haven't looked into that yet.

          I also have one of those really low-cost ($8 at the time of purchase) HF #33 planes and earlier this year I bought a #4 Stanley-design Kobalt from Lowes. Surprisingly the little #33 is fairly well made, albeit the strange spoke shave-like adjustments on the blade. Mine has a fairly well machined sole which required only and hour or so of work and a bit of filing at the mouth. The Kobalt also seems to be made fairly well, material wise anyway. The base is square, though I had to look at several to find this one. However, the sole is not perfect with a very slight bit of a bow front to back. I have't reworked that yet, but out-of-the-box, it's showing about 1/100" gap fore to aft, which I don't think is really terrible. For general carpentry it works okay, although the frog and mouth area required some filing to make them flat and square (a few casting burrs).

          I drool over the Veritas stuff from L-V, but wow they do cost. I suppose everything is relative though. The Lee-Nielsen's are a more conventional design I think. But their cost is right up there too. It would be terrific to have either, IMO. But with me, I'm not sure my woodworking skills could ever justify that, but then at my age, why do I need to justify anything.... just come up with the money (my son is long out of college, so now all I ever have to worry about is the grandson's... a parent never ever seems to be able to forget about fiscal responsibility I guess.

          Now as far as choosing a block plane.... I don't know, certainly no expert here (as you may have gathered by now), but I think I would look seriously at a Veritas low-angle. Perhaps I don't understand the mechanics as well as I should, but it just seems to me that a low-angle plane would slice better than a high-angle. To me, the latter would scrape and the former slice, which would be better for cross-grain or minor surface adjustments, especially on figured grain or softer woods. (Maybe those more experienced here could give me a lesson or two though.)

          For whatever it's worth,

          CWS
          Think it Through Before You Do!

          Comment

          • seahawk
            Forum Newbie
            • Oct 2012
            • 54
            • Maryland
            • BT 3000 x 2!

            #6
            I have the Lee Valley low angle. It is my favorite tool of all (and there are a lot). Well made, solid feel, easily tuned. I have never regretted buying a quality tools. Then again, for a tool I'll only use once, HF is a good way to go...Never going to need that 36mm socket again...

            Comment

            • mpc
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2005
              • 979
              • Cypress, CA, USA.
              • BT3000 orig 13amp model

              #7
              Total blade angle (blade bevel angle + frog angle of the plane) make a difference on where/when a plane can best be used... and sometimes the physics are counter-intuitive. Low angles work well when trimming end grain. High angles just tend to rip end grain into small chunks - resulting in a surface much worse than the starting surface. Along face grain however, a low angle plane tends to pry up the fibers, especially when planing against the grain. (similar to feeding a board the wrong way through a jointer or thickness planer) Adjustable mouth block planes help here - the closer the sole is to the cutting edge of the blade the better supported the wood fibers are and thus the less tendency there is for tear-out. It's the block plane equivalent to a zero-clearance throat plate. High angle planes help with curly grain or along face grain.

              Imagine the following collections of slashes are the side edge of a board:

              /////////////////////////////////////////////////////

              If one were to run a hand plane along the top of that surface from left-to-right, one is working with the grain direction and the results will generally be pretty good. Going right-to-left though will make the wood fibers want to tear out ahead of and below the cut level of the blade. The front part of the plane sole holds the fibers down like a ZCTP. A higher blade angle forces the shaved fibers to curve upwards more and, combined with the plane sole just ahead of the blade holding them down, wants to break the fibers. That fiber breaking reduces their strength at lifting fibers ahead of the blade. On bench planes this is in fact the job of the "chip breaker" attached to the top of the blade. The shaving rolls up from the blade and smacks into the chip breaker which bends it further up and forwards causing the fibers to break. For block planes, it is essential the sole contacts the work on either side of the blade throat. A "hollow" between the very leading edge of the sole and the part just ahead of the blade opening isn't so bad... as long as the area immediately in front of the blade is firmly in contact with the workpiece. A low-angle block plane actually does less "bending/curling" of the just-cut fibers which, if the sole isn't firmly in contact with the work acting as a ZCTP, results in more tear-out.

              A low total angle blade angle is somewhat like a chisel. A high total angle begins to approximate a card scraper. Card scrapers are held nearly perpendicular to the workpiece - i.e. 80 to 90 degree angle though the actual angle at the burr is different. Ever use a chisel as a scraper - holding it perpendicular to the work? That's a very high angle plane. You get little cutting action but no tear-out and a smooth final surface.

              So: low angle block plane = better for trimming end grain. With an adjustable mouth (front part of plane sole can move close or far from blade) adjusted to a small mouth opening it'll work well along the grain too.
              Higher angle block plane = typically better results when used along the grain. Probably difficult to work on end grain (harder to physically push) and may result in a less than stellar surface.

              Having said all that... hand blade planes can be sharpened to almost any angle - not just "what came with the plane." Ergo one could use one plane body + frog assembly and sharpen a blade with a very flat (low) angle to get a near-low angle block plane and another blade at a much steeper angle to get a higher angle block plane. As long as the steeper angle physically fits through the mouth opening that is... A flat/low blade angle will typically need to be sharpened more often as there is less metal behind the cutting edge to support it... just like paring chisels tend to need honing more often compared to beefier bench or mortising chisels.

              Basic steps for tuning up a hand plane:
              1: take it apart and clean everything.

              2: re-install the blade support "frog" assembly. Lay the blade on the frog so it just protrudes through the mouth. If the frog is adjustable (typically not on block planes, typically yes on bench planes), move it back and forth until the back of the blade is just touching the back of the mouth opening. Look along the back of the blade where it intersects the mouth. Ideally the sole and frog are 100% in contact with the back of the blade to support it. If the top of the frog, or back of the mouth, aren't parallel to the blade or have an arc-shape, the blade won't be supported as well and may "chatter" in use. With the blade lightly held, push on the corners of it to see if it rocks at all - just like how you'd test a board on your workbench to see if it's flat. Gently file high spots so the blade has the best / flattest support possible. Often paint on the sole and/or frog is lumpy in this area; it doesn't hurt to file it away. Don't file the mouth opening too much larger if possible and make sure the leading edge behind the blade isn't itself sharpened to a blade. Otherwise it'll get damaged easily leading to small chunks hanging down and thus making marks in your workpiece. The leading edge of the mouth, right behind the blade, should be dead-vertical (instead of a point), for at least half (or more) of the thickness of the sole. Filing it to a point not only weakens the sole too much (it won't support the blade so well) but it also creates a potential sawdust/shaving catching slot.

              3: Mount the blade to the plane and adjust the cutting edge to be slightly INSIDE the plane - i.e. so it's not cutting at all. Tighten the blade support screw, lever, whatever. This puts "normal operating stresses" into the plane body so if it flexes at all it's now flexed to what it'll be when using it. Use a pencil or Sharpie and draw a zig-zag pattern across the entire sole. Make sure to put marks very close to the blade mouth too. Put some fine sandpaper on a dead-flat surface: MDF, a piece of plate glass, granite surfacing stone, etc. Without pushing down on the plane much, move it across the paper a few times. Then look at the zig-zag marks. Ideally the marks will be evenly reduced in appearance. Any place that the marks are "un-sanded" shows a depression in the sole; areas where the marks are completely gone indicate lumps in the sole. Slight depressions in the center spots of the soles are not a big deal... but unless it means removing enough material to physically weaken the plane I go ahead and sand the sole to get it dead-flat. Once the sole is flat, do a final "honing" on fresh fine sandpaper, moving the plane back-and-forth (in the direction you'd normally use the plane on wood) so the final scratch pattern is lined up with the normal movement direction of the plane.

              4: Sharpen the blade: if you have a blade sharpening system (Tormek, WorkSharp, etc.) use it per its instructions. Basically though start with the backside of the blade. Use the pencil or Sharpie to make another zig-zag pattern and see how flat the backside of the blade is. Ideally the whole thing is dead-flat... but all that really matters is the area immediately behind the cutting edge - may an inch or so back. Just like a chisel - the area right behind the cutting edge is where is has to be dead-flat. Once it's dead-flat, flip it over and sharpen the bevel. Then flip it one more time (working the back again) to remove any burr that has developed. Before removing the burr, some folks like to increase the blade angle about 2 degrees resulting in a small part sharpened to a slightly higher angle. Personal preference. I haven't really tried this myself so I have no personal opinion on if it's better or not.

              5: I apply a thin coating of paste wax to the plane, especially the sole and any other unpainted areas, to protect them from rust. And to the blade.

              6: Mount the blade into the plane. Hold the plane upside down with the nose of the plane facing you so you can sight down the sole. Tweak the blade position until you can just see it - and make sure it is straight across the sole. If the plane has an adjustable mouth (i.e. the sole in front of the blade can move back and forth a little bit) adjust it to nearly close the mouth and lock it down. For testing, I like to use a quarter inch thick flat piece of wood - a scrap I can hold in my hand about the size of a credit card. Hold the plane upside-down and run this scrap across the sole close to one corner of the blade. See/feel how it cuts. Is it hard to drag it across the blade or is it hard to drag it evenly? If so, the blade is probably protruding too much. No cut at all? Blade isn't protruding enough. Then slide the test piece across the sole along the other side of the blade and make sure the cut is the same as the first side - this verifies the blade is straight in the plane body. Repeat the two test cuts until they're easy, enough material is coming off (if all you're getting is wood dust the blade isn't protruding far enough), and the cuts are symmetric on either side of the plane.

              That's what I do anyway. Notice there was nothing about the sides of the plane body. Ideally they're perpendicular to the sole but this is only mandatory for hand planes that will be used in shooting boards. However... a plane that is way off perpendicular generally is a sign of a cheaply-made tool.

              mpc

              Comment

              • mpc
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2005
                • 979
                • Cypress, CA, USA.
                • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                #8
                Lie-Nielsen has a small traveling road show that stops in a few cities throughout the year. If one of these happens in your area it is worth the time to attend. They're free (unless the venue charges for parking - that's not LN though), LN has pretty much all of their hand planes, saws, and chisels on display - and available for testing/try-out, a few workbenches and lots of scrap material to play with. And several attendants ready to demonstrate everything hand-plane related: usage, sharpening, reading grain, and picking the appropriate tool, etc. You can even bring in something you already own to get some expert consulting/instruction on it.

                For a couple hours of your time you basically get a free hands-on classroom. Of course they're ready to sell you stuff too though often they don't have much stock on-hand. LN sells online or via authorized stores and they keep the prices consistent across all sellers I believe. My experience has been that buying from the shows gets that same price but free shipping. Often they'll throw in one of their instructional/demo DVDs too - you get to chose one. I've been to the SoCal shows several times in the last few years just to get a chance to try unusual planes. For example, I use power tools to make grooves and dados but there are specialty planes to do this as well and it's fun to give 'em a try. A few years ago LN developed a monster plane specifically for shooting boards... drool-worthy. Like many LN (and LV) planes, it was inspired by and is modeled after a Stanley plane from decades ago. Stanley sold a metal gizmo that looks something like an old style miter-saw frame --> a hand plane "shooting board" that could be adjusted to cut any angle. One of those gizmos is in the collection of a local lumber store near me - where LN's road show did their demo a few times. So they borrowed this Stanley contraption and put it on display with their new shooting board plane. I spoke to the reps about it and they admitted they want to create a LN version of that gizmo... so far though I haven't seen it! It'd probably cost a few hundred bucks but it would be just too cool to pass up!

                mpc

                Comment

                • radhak
                  Veteran Member
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 3058
                  • Miramar, FL
                  • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

                  #9
                  Thanks mpc, that's fantastic info worth bookmarking for me! And I would love to go to one of those roadshows, and I would pay! Thanks for the post!
                  Last edited by radhak; 11-06-2017, 08:50 AM.
                  It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
                  - Aristotle

                  Comment

                  • radhak
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 3058
                    • Miramar, FL
                    • Right Tilt 3HP Unisaw

                    #10
                    Good to hear your takes, CWS and Seahawk. I think I will go for the low angle Veritas.
                    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
                    - Aristotle

                    Comment

                    • jabe
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 566
                      • Hilo, Hawaii
                      • Ryobi BT3000 & Delta Milwaukee 10" tilting Table circular saw

                      #11
                      Have any of you tried using a Japanese block plane called "Kanna". Just a block of hardwood with a cut out for the blade and blade hold down. Comes in varies lengths & widths, just 2 moving parts the blade & holder. You adjust the blade by tapping the wood, tap the long end to lower the blade, tap the short end to raise the blade, simple. Buy a good quality kanna and it'll stay sharp for a long time, they use better steel for the blade, they can be pricey. I hand sharpen it on different grit Japanese water stones, it polishes up nice and sharp. If you get a nick in the blade do not grind it on a machine, use a hammer and anvil tap it carefully to flair out the metal of the blade then get back on the water stones to grind it to shape. If the nick is small just use the water stones to get it out. Takes time to repair a nick so it makes you more careful when using it. Always retract the blade when storing.

                      Comment

                      • durango dude
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 934
                        • a thousand or so feet above insanity
                        • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

                        #12
                        I have an old Stanley that is my go to block plane. Back up is an old Millers Falls.

                        LV is top of the wish list for eventual replacement.

                        My plane inventory includes Millers Falls #4 and Jack Plane. The Jack gets more use.

                        My stanley shoulder plane is priceless and great for rabett finishing.

                        Comment

                        • os1kne
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 901
                          • Atlanta, GA
                          • BT3100

                          #13
                          My wife got me a LV low-angle block plane for Christmas 10+ years ago (before we had kids, and when we were more inclined to splurge). Anyway, I'll give it a +1. It's one of my favorite tools to use, but I probably haven't used it enough to justify its cost.
                          Bill

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