Use it or lose it?

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  • atgcpaul
    Veteran Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 4055
    • Maryland
    • Grizzly 1023SLX

    Use it or lose it?

    I guess this is a good problem to have?

    We are moving overseas in a few months and my desire to continue woodworking has not waned. I know I can't bring my big tools but I want to have some tools. The problem is electricity in pretty much the rest of the world is 220V and 50Hz--at least where we're going it is. If it were 60Hz, I wouldn't be so concerned because I will be getting some step down converters. However, I can't do anything about the frequency. I've read that the lower frequency eventually kills tools (maybe heat?). There are some tools I'd love to bring with me like my Domino, Dewalt tracksaw, and Bosch router but these are 60Hz. My Bosch jigsaw, Skilsaw, and Dewalt recip saw are dual frequency so I can bring them.

    Assuming we like this new life, we'll probably be abroad for 10 years. I'd hate to cause an early demise to my tools, but I'm thinking some use is better than no use, right? I have also considered going all cordless to reduce space and because the chargers are dual voltage/frequency, but that's a big chunk of change to make the switch. I do use handtools, but I have no desire to do that for everything--it's bad enough I have to give up my jointer/planer.

    Anyway, what to do?
  • LCHIEN
    Internet Fact Checker
    • Dec 2002
    • 20920
    • Katy, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 vintage 1999

    #2
    I hope you know the difference between induction motors and universal...
    Universal motors will run on 50 or 60 Hz with no difference. in speed. Voltage is critical so a step down transformer is needed
    Induction motors turn at a rat determined by the freq. so they will run 16% slower on 50 Hz. But a step down transformer is needed too. Whether the speed is an issue, I'm sure it depends partly on the tool/

    MOst hand held portable tools use universal motors, and the BT3xxx also.
    Most stationary tools use induction - drill presses, jointers, most large table saws
    You can tell by looking, but it takes some knowledge.
    Last edited by LCHIEN; 09-17-2017, 11:48 PM.
    Loring in Katy, TX USA
    If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
    BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

    Comment

    • atgcpaul
      Veteran Member
      • Aug 2003
      • 4055
      • Maryland
      • Grizzly 1023SLX

      #3
      This article kind of helps but not really.

      https://www.popularwoodworking.com/t..._about_motors1

      I won't be bringing any of my big stationary tools. I don't quite understand why universal tools don't really care about frequency. Is it that they spin so fast already that the 16% change doesn't matter? Are they actually spinning at full speed or not?

      Why bother stamping some with "50-60Hz" and the others at just "60Hz"? The Skilsaw is actually stamped "25-60Hz".

      Anyway, is the take away message that the tools will probably be just fine--just don't plug them straight into a 220 outlet?

      Comment

      • leehljp
        Just me
        • Dec 2002
        • 8429
        • Tunica, MS
        • BT3000/3100

        #4
        I can't tell you which kind to use and which kind not to use, but I think I had a both types in my tools. I know several people had induction motors from the USA in their contractor saws. I had the universal in my Ryobi and routers. When in Japan, the east/north end from just outside of Tokyo had 50 cycles and 100V. I did not have a problem with them for 5 years. Then I moved west to Osaka and we had 60 cycle there. Same machines and 100V. They ran just as well there. I did find a couple of step up 30 amp (variacs) step up transformers and used them occasionally, but mostly I didn't. I never had a problem with any of my tools - Sears band saw, 5 different routers, American purchased BT3000, Rikon lathe (pretty sure it was an induction motor as it was heavy), numerous corded tools such as grinders, sanders, drills, drill press, thickness planer, and I bought them all back except the bandsaw that a fellow wanted.

        Over on this side, they adapted back to 120V without a problem and that has been almost 7 years. None have broken on me. I do think taking a "made for 100v" tool and putting 120v to it will hurt worse than taking a 110/120 and dropping it to 100v. I did have one problem with some electronics when I plugged a 100V satellite dish receiver into 110V. Blew it out instantly! But on motors, no problem unless they are new electronically controlled. In those cases, read the instructions.

        In the USA during hot summers and brownouts, I have checked the voltage and watched it drop to 90v, so tools here (110/120) should run on 100v without a problem.
        Hank Lee

        Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

        Comment

        • LCHIEN
          Internet Fact Checker
          • Dec 2002
          • 20920
          • Katy, TX, USA.
          • BT3000 vintage 1999

          #5
          Paul,
          induction motors use the alternating current field to rotate the magnetic field directly which means it changes 60 or 50 times per second. That sets the rotation rate it tries to keep up with, less what they call the slip which is 5-10% of the speed and load dependent. That's why you can't change the speed of induction motors by changing the voltage.

          Universal motors don't depend on the alternating current to rotate the field, Instead they use a commutator and brushes to alternate the field .The armature and rotor are always pushing because the commutator and brushes keeps it n in opposition every half turn. The push is therefore proportional to the voltage so you can control the speed of a universal motor with voltage change from a variac or a light/motor speed controller.
          Loring in Katy, TX USA
          If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
          BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

          Comment

          • durango dude
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2011
            • 934
            • a thousand or so feet above insanity
            • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

            #6
            I lived in the UAE for 4 years. If it has a motor ---- don't take it.

            There's another problem --------- the UAE knew very little about making stuff ---- so it was
            nearly impossible to find good tools. I found plenty of knock-offs --- made of junk steel.

            I went to ACE hardware ----- and was crushed to find out ---- it's just a name.

            Don't bother with the "Milwakee" drills that you see in overseas.

            I did find a decent dremel over there ----- but that's the only "power" tool I ever used.

            Where I lived (likely unique) - ---- Tools weren't for professionals. Professionals don't make things ---- they buy them.


            Comment

            • atgcpaul
              Veteran Member
              • Aug 2003
              • 4055
              • Maryland
              • Grizzly 1023SLX

              #7
              Originally posted by durango dude
              I lived in the UAE for 4 years. If it has a motor ---- don't take it.
              Did any of your tools die over there? We aren't going to the UAE but will be in the MidEast. It has the same power as UAE, though, 220V, 50Hz.

              Comment

              • durango dude
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2011
                • 934
                • a thousand or so feet above insanity
                • 50s vintage Craftsman Contractor Saw

                #8
                I've been in the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, and Saudi. Have also visited Egypt and Lebanon.

                The quality of handicraft tools throughout the region is marginal. The availability of material is worse.

                Motorized tools will die on a converter.


                Once you get into Egypt and Lebanon, things get a little better. There's enough population
                to sustain the arts, and enough artists to create a market.

                The best source of wood for me was pallets in the industrial district (there's often nice wood on the pallet ---- especially from places like India).

                Most cities in the GCC have some talented Pakastani workers who can make anything overnight. They can help you find what you want.
                They typically have access to nice rosewood and Asian walnut.

                Learn a little Urdu and you'll get into some half decent stuff.

                Tool-wise ---- a friend of mined turned pens, and had a lathe he ordered from the UK.

                His wood source was cut-offs from the local cabinet maker. (he learned Urdu).

                It's going to be challenging to find the kind of stuff you want to take with you. However, it will also be challenging to operate
                that stuff.

                Don't take your stuff ----- find then go watch the talented guys.
                They'll be surprised to have admiration from an American, and you're likely to get yourself a great friend.


                Comment

                • leehljp
                  Just me
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 8429
                  • Tunica, MS
                  • BT3000/3100

                  #9
                  Originally posted by durango dude
                  I've been in the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, and Saudi. Have also visited Egypt and Lebanon.

                  The quality of handicraft tools throughout the region is marginal. The availability of material is worse.

                  Motorized tools will die on a converter.


                  Don't take your stuff ----- find then go watch the talented guys.
                  They'll be surprised to have admiration from an American, and you're likely to get yourself a great friend.
                  Why is that? Why there and not in Japan? I had the exact opposite experience in a 50 cycle environment and the 60 cycle environment in the same country - with USA tools. I used 120V American tools on 100V with no problem. And At times I used a Variac when I saw -or rather "read" how 100V will destroy a 120V motor or refrigerator etc; but for me it never did. And many of my colleagues brought tools from the USA and had the same experience. The main problem was rust in coastal cities, but not motor damage. Most of my early colleagues went when refrigerators and oven/stoves were tiny, so we bought American appliances with us, gas and electric including AC, 120v and 220V. They worked for years and years on 100v or 200v.

                  If I could get in touch with all of my collogues (and many have passed away now) I'll bet that we could total a 1000 years of 120v appliances and motorized tools on 100V without a hitch - and about a third who used a "converter" (variac) that did convert to 120v.

                  So what do you think the difference might be that it doesn't happen in one country and it does in the other? Curious.
                  Hank Lee

                  Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                  Comment

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