220V Question on installation

[chris64]

So - I am pretty sure I know the answer to this question but I am going to throw it out there anyway. I want to install a 220V line in my garage. I could run it from the panel through the attic (lots of work and several other obstacles to run into), or I could punch a hole in the wall of my garage that backs up to the kitchen where my stove plugs into and tap off of that (much easier). I assume everyone is going to discourage that route but - do you think that line could handle both the oven on and a 220V power saw at once? I don't think the wife would be too happy to put a ban on stove use while I am in the garage ha.

[leehljp]

My opinion: No. But I actually did this in Japan. The kitchen was built for electric (200 over there) and gas, and we used a gas stove. So, I ran the 200 from the stove, back under the floor, into conduit to my shed/shop about 15 feet away.

It is better to run a new line. I am wondering what others with experience would say.

[poolhound]

I think I would agree with Hank. If you could guarantee they never were operated at the same time then no technical issue but I would not want them running together. Having now done this twice, once for my garage and then again for my dedicated shop I would run a 50A circuit to a sub panel in the garage and then you can wire as many 220 or 110 circuits as you want. I had an electrician do the long run from the panel to my garage and connect to the subpanel. I had done all the recptical wiring back to the sub panel area and he connected everything up, It didnt end up costing that much and I am glad I did it that way. Its also a benefit when you sell especially not having some strange garage 220v outlet that they trace back to the kitchen and tell you its not in code and the buyer has a conniption!

[woodturner]

So - I am pretty sure I know the answer to this question but I am going to throw it out there anyway. I want to install a 220V line in my garage. I could run it from the panel through the attic (lots of work and several other obstacles to run into), or I could punch a hole in the wall of my garage that backs up to the kitchen where my stove plugs into and tap off of that (much easier). I assume everyone is going to discourage that route but - do you think that line could handle both the oven on and a 220V power saw at once? I don't think the wife would be too happy to put a ban on stove use while I am in the garage ha.

Yeah, that is definitely not safe or to code. A stove receptacle is wired differently than a 220V power tool receptacle.

Is it really that much easier to run through the wall, once you get the wire high enough above grade or buried to meet code and be safe?

Better to do it the right way now - if you do it through the wall, you will have to redo it anyway when you sell the house, a neighbor notices, or the inspector notices.

[Black walnut]

Run a new line.

[cwsmith]

I agree. The electric range/oven will have a substantial Amp draw, that's essentially why it's 220 Volts. If you run the line from that circuit, I think you will be tripping the breaker for sure. You will need a separate 220-Volt circuit to your garage and the saw. Question of course is whether running it through the attic is your only other pathway?

CWS

[vaking]

Circuit breaker is a safety device. If your appliance draws more current than it was designed circuit breaker is supposed to trip to protect the circuit and your appliance. If you can run an oven and a saw at the same time - circuit breaker isn't doing its job. It means you need to replace that breaker. In practical terms - electric range is a big consumer of current, it can use 50 Amps or more. I would guess that a saw is a smaller consumer, probably 15 or 20 Amps. It is possible that adding a 15 Amp saw to the 50 Amp range might not trip a breaker but it is still not a cause for celebration. It means you have 15 Amp saw plugged into the circuit designed for 50 Amps or more - way too big for the saw. This circuit provides no protection for the saw. If your blade stalls - circuit breaker will not pop and you may burn motor or even cause a fire. Major appliances like ranges and saws are supposed to have dedicated circuits with properly sized breakers. Connecting two major appliances to a single breaker is just looking for trouble.

[woodturner]

If your appliance draws more current than it was designed circuit breaker is supposed to trip to protect the circuit and your appliance.

One slight clarification - the purpose of the breaker is to protect the circuit (wiring). While the appliance may coincidentally benefit from that protection, the breaker does not protect the appliance. An appliance that requires protection needs to have it's own breaker - which is why most devices have their own breakers.

Might be more clear in the case of a low current device, such as a radio. Radio shorts out, draws 3A instead of 1A, panel breaker never trips. However, the fuse or breaker in the radio will trip.

[LCHIEN]

That is correct.

[chris64]

OK - thanks all. that was my gut feeling - I think you all verified it.

[LCHIEN]

You could potentially get away with just extending a stub off the stove for years. Never having more than two burners on at the same time using the saw lightly.
One day you will have four burners on instead of three and at the same time you will try and rip a four by four through and through and bamo, you will have used more than the allowed current for once and dinner and your workpiece will be ruined.

[JimD]

The size of the breaker should be matched to the size of the wiring. So the breaker should trip before the wiring is overloaded.

To know whether you can run the shop 220V and the stove off the same circuit from a practical matter you would need to know the size of the wiring/breaker and the current draw of the stove and the tools in the shop. I think the NEC requires a dedicated circuit to the stove but I didn't go look it up. But if the stove and the tool do not exceed the size of the wiring and breaker, then it should work. That is probably not the case but you might want to check. But if you go to sell the house and the inspector finds them on the same circuit (unlikely) you would at least have to disconnect the shop circuit.

I know 120V circuits in a garage are supposed to be GFCI (and mine are) protected but I don't know about 220V. Seems logical they would also require that protection but code requirements aren't always terribly logical.

[onedash]

I had a sub panel ran to my garage. Every 20 amp outlet is on it's own breaker and while my saw is still 110 I had him run heavy duty wire to the outlet for the table saw so it could be upgraded to 220 and then some. I did all the drywall cutting and repairing so that saved me almost $1,000 on the job. Haven't tripped a breaker yet!

[tfischer]

Would it work? Maybe. Is it safe? Possibly, if the breaker is sized properly. Is it up to code, absolutely not.

I'd take the time to do it right if it were me. You could even run the wire around the house in a conduit if that's easier than attic work.

[chopnhack]

I know 120V circuits in a garage are supposed to be GFCI (and mine are) protected but I don't know about 220V. Seems logical they would also require that protection but code requirements aren't always terribly logical.

Hi all, late to the game on this one, but AFAI recall, GFCI does not apply to 220v outlets in the garage or basement. The NEC at the time I read it required the GFCI for 120v to prevent electrocution for people working on concrete floors with power tools. Presumably they did not give much thought to dedicated equipment requiring 220v outlets. For safety Chris, you can just buy a GFCI breaker if you like the added safety it provides.