Switched Outlet Repair Help Needed

[JoeyGee]

I know my picture isn't very clear, so hopefully I can explain the issue. LOML told me there as a "spark" when she went to use an outlet, which is a switched outlet. I went to replace it and noticed the outlet itself is damaged (top half is missing the plastic outer part) so I am not sure what that's about.

Anyway, I take the outlet out of the wall and notice there is one black and two whites going into the outlet (it's an old style, insert wire into the back). There is also one white wire that is loose--stripped as if inserted before and came out. There are three romex cables coming into the box. Two of the blacks are tied together and covered with a wire nut, the other going to the outlet.

My questions are, why only one black going to the outlet and where in the heck does the extra white wire go?

[JoeyGee]

...so I would assume the bare white is coming from the switch as hot, but whoever installed it didn't mark it as so. I should be able to install this new outlet with the black hot on the bottom, the "white hot" on the top hot terminal as long as I break the connection between the two hot terminals?

[vaking]

Here is my guess:
Outlet needs 3 wires - hot, neutral and ground. Black is supposed to be hot, white is supposed to be neutral, bare is ground. Within the outlet smaller pin is hot, bigger pin is neutral. You have 3 romex cables coming to this junction box, I presume each has one white and one black. Romex itself is the ground. Can you see which black wire goes into same romex cable as the lose white? Switched outlet often brakes this color pattern because you have a switch somewhere and that switch interrupts the hot, so you have "always-on" hot vs "switched hot". I would guess that wing nut with 2 black wires is "always-on hot". you have one romex cable that has one always-on hot and neutral bringing power to this junction box. This cable will have one of the 2 black wires sitting under the wire nut. The white cable from this romex will be plugged into neutral connector on the outlet. The other black wire under the wing nut is the romex going to the switch. White wire within the same romex will be the lose white wire - it is the "switched hot" coming from the switch. It should be connected to the smaller pin side on the outlet.
And the 3rd romex cable has black wire connected to hot side of the outlet, white wire connected to neutral side of the outlet. This romex extends the "switched power" to some other places in your house - the switch that disconnects this outlet also disconnects something else, possibly some light.

[JoeyGee]

Yes, thank you, that is how this is set up. This is an outlet that is rarely used, so we don't use the switch, either. So, I don't know if both outlets (in the same duplex outlet) are switched, or just one. How do I know if I need to break the connection (on the outlet) between the two hots? If I leave it in place and should have removed it, will it be bad? Vice versa, if I break the connection and I shouldn't have, would that be bad?

[capncarl]

Just because that wire is white don't assume it is NOT hot. It looks like this box is also being used for a junction box, so anything goes. I recommend using a meter or a test light to see what is happening.
capncarl

[BadeMillsap]

Just because that wire is white don't assume it is NOT hot. It looks like this box is also being used for a junction box, so anything goes. I recommend using a meter or a test light to see what is happening.
capncarl

+1 ... you really need to put a meter on the wires to see what is hot and what is not .

[LCHIEN]

If both links are intact then there's no way it can be anything but both outlets in the duplex are switched together.

If one or the other link are broken off, then that's indicative that one may be hot always and the other switched. But there would have ot be separate wires to the top and bottom outlet on the side with the broken link to power that outlet.

Unfortunately your photo are not showing anything useful, like what grouping the three wires have compared to whats tied together and to the outlet and if the outlet is upside down or rightside up (telling me if the hot/neutral colors are reversed.

The only reasonable wiring I can think of would have a white wire being the switched hot coming back to the Hot on the outlet. And the third wire going to a second outlet (switched outlets are often used in pairs surrounding a couch or 2 sides of a bed.) A loose wire could be the second outlet disconnected but usually you would have the hot disconnected. But I don't know he reversed evrything.

[woodturner]

I know my picture isn't very clear, so hopefully I can explain the issue. LOML told me there as a "spark" when she went to use an outlet, which is a switched outlet. I went to replace it and noticed the outlet itself is damaged (top half is missing the plastic outer part) so I am not sure what that's about.

Anyway, I take the outlet out of the wall and notice there is one black and two whites going into the outlet (it's an old style, insert wire into the back). There is also one white wire that is loose--stripped as if inserted before and came out. There are three romex cables coming into the box. Two of the blacks are tied together and covered with a wire nut, the other going to the outlet.

My questions are, why only one black going to the outlet and where in the heck does the extra white wire go?

First issue is that the push-in terminals were used, generally not considered to be a good practice. The wires tend to come out from the push-in terminals, as you have observed. Better to use the screw terminals, always. Takes a little longer, but the wires stay attached.

It appears the connecting tab on the side with the black wire is removed - and this makes sense. That would make one receptacle switched and one always on. Is that what you have?

If so, the white wire likely goes in the second from the top terminal, above the black wire. The two black wires in the wire nut are an incoming hot and the black wire to the switch. The white wires on the back side of the receptacle in the photo are providing the neutral returns for both the switched and unswitched sockets. The white wire that is loose is the switched hot coming back from the switch. It's considered good practice to color that wire black with a marker or wrap it with black electrical tape, but obviously your electrician did not do this.

Wait a minute - don't rush off and start hooking up wires just yet. I suggest the following:
1. With breaker on and switch off, use ONLY ONE HAND and a non-contact tester to confirm that no white wire is active (e.g. doesn't beep or light on the white wirre).
2. Turn on the switch, confirm that the loose white wire now show active.
3. Turn off the breaker.
4. Replace receptacle with a screw terminal type (assuming this one does not have screw terminals, can't see terminals in the photo) one wire at a time. Break the tab on the black side, and hook the wires up one by one, to the same positions on the new receptacle. Attach the loose white wire to the top terminal on the hot side of the receptacle.
5. Install receptacle in the box, make sure wires are not pinched or stressed. The receptacle should sit in the box with no pressure applied, the screws should be just to hold it in place, not to draw it into the box.
6. Turn on the breaker, wait a minute, make sure it doesn't trip.
7. Test both sockets with an outlet tester for correct operation and hot/neutral/ground. Test the switch to confirm it switches the receptacle.
8. Install the cover plate.

Non-contact electrical tester example:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Non-Contact-AC-Voltage-Detector-MS8907/205620398

Outlet tester example:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Tools-Outlet-Tester-Green-MS112H/206029154

[LCHIEN]

I can't tell from the pic if the link is broken or not.
But it doesn't make sense that it would be. If it was there would be two wires going to this side of the outlet (one each to power the upper outlet and the lower outlet), the pic shows only one. Unless the loose white wire fell out of that socket. That would make sense because the pair to the switch would be black hot, white switched hot and should go to the switched outlet. The black junction would the hot from the breaker and the hot to the switch.

It would help if we could see what wires are in what cable jackets.

[woodturner]

If it was there would be two wires going to this side of the outlet (one each to power the upper outlet and the lower outlet), the pic shows only one. Unless the loose white wire fell out of that socket.

That was my conclusion - the white is the switched hot for the switched socket - and fell out of the terminal that looks cleaner than the others and looks used.

[LCHIEN]

So I concur with Joey's original assumption:
"...so I would assume the bare white is coming from the switch as hot, but whoever installed it didn't mark it as so. I should be able to install this new outlet with the black hot on the bottom, the "white hot" on the top hot terminal as long as I break the connection between the two hot terminals?"

[JoeyGee]

Thanks for all the replies. I have not had time to get back to the outlet (power is off at the breaker) but I hope to this weekend.

[tfischer]

It's best to put a meter on it in situations like this. In the picture, is your ground pin facing down? It doesn't look like the jumper is broken off on the RHS of the outlet which would be the hot. If they're switching neutrals (only the left side jumper broken off) that's bad stuff.

[tjoosk]

...so I would assume the bare white is coming from the switch as hot, but whoever installed it didn't mark it as so. I should be able to install this new outlet with the black hot on the bottom, the "white hot" on the top hot terminal as long as I break the connection between the two hot terminals?