No good saw for $300

[LinuxRandal]

Disclaimer: Joke

via the legal Dept of The New Yankee Workshop

Attn employees,

It is alright to post the opinion that there is no good $300.00 tablesaw, as the Ryobi BT series, that several of you own and have used, is currently sold at $299 or less, thereby validating the "it's not a $300 saw". Please infer our sponsers saw, as part of that extra money the "unisaw" brings, helps pay our legal fees.

Thank you,
(and no the sharkguard isn't against people in our profession) Your legal team.


JOKE DISCLAIMER

[coach]

Now this is a long winded post.... and I read through every word of it. Actually it is a great post, and I appreciate all the opinions; the ones I agree with and the ones I don't. I think everyone here brings something to the plate, and that is why I read BT3central before any of the other forums I belong to.

I have to agree that "you cannot get a good table saw for $300", at least not around my side of Dallas..... every HD I have stopped by has been out of the BT3100 for a while now. It is a shame, because you use to be able to get a very good table saw for $300 at your friendly neighborhood BORG. Hopefully ITT has something in the works as a good quality replacement. I would hate to see people on a budget get an unsafe table saw because the BT3k isn't an option anymore.

Anyone who says that the BT3 is not a good value is nuts. Here is my example: I decided to move to a heavier saw, and so I parted my BT3 out. I was fair to the market, or a little below, on all my prices; and I probably came close to doubling my original investment. Try that with ANY other table saw.

The BT3 was a great saw for me, and it is always the first saw I recommend to anyone just getting thier feet wet (or it use to be when it was still available..... now I recommend a guided circular saw if they can't find a BT). We all know why it is such a good saw, so I won't beat the horse.

When I decided to move up to a new saw, I budgeted myself $2k. That didn't leave very many saws out of my price range, so I could make a choice on what I wanted and needed. Guess what.... I didn't buy a Uni. Oh yeah, I looked at them several times; I just wasn't sold on them. I think thier reputation as the industrial standard is far behind them. I would have bought the JET or Grizzly over the Uni. The only thing I felt they had going for them was the Biesemeyer fence, and I still think it is pretty darn good. At the time, the new Powermatic 2000 wasn't even a product, or I might have considered it. So I ended up buying the Sears 22124. When I got it onsale, it was less than half of my budget. That didn't matter to me though. It had what I wanted and needed. I was already use to a left-tilt BT3, so I knew what I wanted there, and the fence, fit and finish, and capacity where all within my needs. I had ripped 8/4 oak and hard maple on my BT3 many times, so I wasn't sold that I needed a 220v 3hp saw just to rip lumber. A good blade on a good saw will get the job done with just a pony-and-a-half. I wanted a heavier saw because I have a habbit of throwing large sheet goods around the shop. I know there are safer ways, but I've been doing it that way for so long, that I kinda like it. Plus, I have my infeed, outfeed, and side support set up for pretty much just that. On top of the 22124, I had to get the Mite-R-Excel to replace the SMT; so add that to my cost as well. I also need to add a Shark Guard, but I shoulda done that to the BT as well. So my new saw does exactly the same thing as my BT3 did, at three times the cost. I've got the saw I like, but you'll never hear me say anything bad about the BT3. Heck, I almost bought another one (during the $199 - 50 rebate) just to have it.

I'm not loyal to any brand except GMC trucks. A quick inventory tells me I have Craftsman, Bosch, Ridgid, JET, DeWalt, Harbor Freight, Hitachi, Porter Cable, Delta, Clarke, MLCS, Jessem, Incra, and a whole bunch of other tools that don't even have a brand. The brand doesn't mean squat... expept for trucks

As far as Norm goes, I like him a lot. He is one of the few TV personalities I'd ever care to meet. As good of a woodworker as he might be, he is an even better carpenter. I think he tries to be practical with most of his techniques, but you can't blame him for using the tools he has on hand. But I do have to ask..... How many of you were really discouraged on the plantation shutter episode when he whipped out the molding machine? My wife was looking so forward to me being able to create those in my shop, but it isn't going to happen. We all know where his money comes from.... but it doesn't stop him from using the Lamello biscuit jointer, now does it.

Anyway, this post was a great read for me. I hope I didn't take up too much space with my ramblings.

[Russianwolf]

I have to agree that "you cannot get a good table saw for $300", at least not around my side of Dallas..... every HD I have stopped by has been out of the BT3100 for a while now. It is a shame, because you use to be able to get a very good table saw for $300 at your friendly neighborhood BORG. Hopefully ITT has something in the works as a good quality replacement. I would hate to see people on a budget get an unsafe table saw because the BT3k isn't an option anymore.

I know, Now We'll have to start recommending the Craftsman Clone at $450 (unless they discountinue it too).

[Tree Farmer]

As far as Norm goes, I like him a lot. He is one of the few TV personalities I'd ever care to meet. As good of a woodworker as he might be, he is an even better carpenter. I think he tries to be practical with most of his techniques, but you can't blame him for using the tools he has on hand.

I've always found a lot to like about Norm. Although I disagree with his web site's Norm impersonators' sentiments regarding the BT, I feel that he generally makes excellent use of his tools and I'm often in awe of his ingenuity. I agree that he's earned the title master carpenter and that he's not a bad woodwooder either. If he likes the Delta and PC tools that the Black and Decker Corporation provides him on the show, so be it. I won't trust the TOH/NYW website for tool advice, that's all.

Come to think of it, I like Tom Silva, Rich Trethewey, and Roger Cook. I think they are relatively practical and will usually emphasize quality and reliability over luxury. In fact, the one element of that whole TOH/NYW regime I don't really like is founder Russ Morash. I think he's primarily responsible for his shows' inexplicable and increasing emphasis on "extreme mansion makeovers" and high-brow antique repros. In fact, in between Norm's exotic antique repro project phase and Russ' coup-de-gras: the $1.5 million Nantucket? mansion renovation on TOH, I completely lost interest in the whole franchise.

It's only been since some older NYWs have been airing and the somewhat pedestrian Ask TOH has become popular that I've come back. I still can't stomach the aristocratic Northeastern elitism of TOH. I think Russ has gotten too rich for his own funky roots with that show.

[skipwill]

Coach,

I was REAL dissappointed when Norm used the molding machine on the plantation shutters. Ruined the whole episode for me, and I had bought the DVD and plans because our PBS is about 6 months behind in episodes.

However, that being said, I did make a set of small plantation shutters a year or so ago and just rounded the slats. They look just fine that way imoho. I will probably use Norms plans, jigs, etc to make a bunch of more larger sets, but just round the edges of the slats instead of the taper-molding-thingie.

Skip

[KBCraig]

Just to stay on topic: I have a 3100, and I love it. I could not have matched it for the money. Equivalent "traditional" saws would run $600+, and they would require just as much tweaking as the BT did. Probably more, once you throw in replacing the v-belts with linked belts.

I just rejoined the forum, after being away for some months (the new forum software was a surprise to me).

Here's my opinion on Nahm: he's a carpenter, not a craftsman. Nothing wrong with being a carpenter, and his carpentry skills are solid. But, he's not a craftsman, because he doesn't create anything new, nor even use his own skills in reproducing the work of others. He's a "wood machinist", not a woodworker; honestly, he might as well use CNC equipment.

My favorite TV woodworker is David J. Marks, who is an absolute artist. He definitely can't be accused of playing to sponsors, because he works in his own shop, filled with tools he purchased himself, over many years. Many are antiques, lovingly restored. The "U.S.S. Marks", his 16" jointer, is a thing of beauty. Same with his huge old bandsaw (a Turner-Walker, I think?)

Here's the difference: for David Marks, the beauty is in the wood, which waits for the craftsman to reveal it (and make it glow with a "nice tung oil finish"). For Nahm, the beauty is in the shape, which could be milled from SYP as easily as from mahogany or cherry, especially since it's going to be nailed through the face with a pneumatic brad gun ("until the glue dries"), then stained or painted.

My wife knows diddly about woodworking. She jokes about my clamp fetish, though. But without any prompting or previous comments on my part, when I was watching NYW, Nahm did his typical bit about "just a few brads to hold it together until it dries". My lovely looked up from her book and burst out, "Brads? You've got a million dollars worth of tools, and you don't own any CLAMPS????"

I love that woman. :-D

Kevin

[Texas splinter]

Like many others posting in this (l-o-n-g) thread, I bought my BT3100 because I was setting up shop from scratch and it was all i could afford. That said, while I use it all the time and am happy with the products I get from the saw, I am not really thrilled by the SMT and some other parts of the saw. The extensive use of plastic parts to adjust the SMT causes (IMHO) me to have to adjust the SMT far more often than I would have expected to when I bought the saw. Plus, I continually have problems keeping the miter bar 90 degrees to the blade. The play seems to be in the SMT adjustments, but if I tighten them to where the miter bar has no play, I can't move the table fore and aft. I am sure that at least part of the problem is my fault, cause I keep reading posts by folks that never have a problem with their SMT, ot any other part of their saws, for that matter. Anyway, I am not "bashing" the BT31 saws, just stating my problems. When I make my first million, I will probably buy a heavier, sturdier saw, till them I will just keep adjusting my BT3100.