My emergency power solution

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  • JimD
    Veteran Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 4187
    • Lexington, SC.

    My emergency power solution

    The old lake house we bought in 2013 and are still working on is all electric. We don't loose power often but when we do we loose water, heat or AC, and all entertainment. It happened this fall and I decided to do something. But, of course, I didn't get busy until we had our first "snow" last weekend. Long term, the plan is to switch the hot water to LP, put in a direct vent fireplace insert also burning LP, and switch to city water. That will let us have basic necessities except for electricity.

    For electricity we decided an inverter made sense for us. We have a boat with a large trolling motor battery we can temporarily repurpose. Starter battery could be used too. My wife mainly wants the internet but the Dish box would also let us watch TV on tablets or computers. And it has to have USB ports to recharge cell phones and tablets. I tried a "CAT" 1000W model from Home Depot but the one I got beeped all the time. So it went back. The reviews on the Krieger 1100W were much better on Amazon so I bought that and it was delivered yesterday. I hooked it up last night and ran the 50 inch LCD, dish box, wireless Joey box, and had standby power to the DVD player for about 15 minutes. The battery was already down some from prior use but the voltage was still over 11V. Low voltage alarm is at 10.5. Everything ran fine. I was using about 125W. I tested the internet equipment on the last inverter so I am sure it will work. I have to run an extension cord to it but that works, the inverter has two outlets - and two USB outlets.

    I got a little one due to the limitations of battery power. When you drop the voltage by ~a factor of 10 (115 to 12V) you increase the amperage by the same amount. So to put out the rated 9.6A at 115V, requires 118amps input. My class 27 trolling motor battery is rated at 100 amp hours. So I could deplete it in less than an hour putting out maximum power. But what I want to do is, hopefully 100-200W. Occasionally, if the power is off hours, I would plug it into the refrigerator to let it cool down. I think that will be about 300W. A lamp with a little CFL is 15W. So my limitation with the inverter is the battery. Being able to run the well pump or a heat pump would be nice but it's not practical on batteries. I think once we get the direct vent insert installed we could survive an extended outage in the winter OK using it, especially if we have entertainment, a few lights and can keep our food from spoiling.

    A generator would do a lot more, depending on the size, but would also be a lot more money. I don't see it as justified for the few times we loose power. We want the direct vent fireplace insert and LP hot water for other reasons so I'm not counting that against the inverter "solution". I think the only practical way to use a generator is with a transfer switch and that adds at least $300. So I'd probably spend the better part of $1000 - and still be limited on power. $100 is a lot easier on the budget.
  • capncarl
    Veteran Member
    • Jan 2007
    • 3570
    • Leesburg Georgia USA
    • SawStop CTS

    #2
    Jim, our house is total electric so we are in a simular boat as you, except it doesn't get as cold. You must be on a municipal water system because you didn't mention a well pump? I purchased a scantly used 6500/8500 watt generator for my back up power so I could operate the well pump. Before Christmas US Generarion put their propane conversion kit 1/2 price so I ordered one to convert my machine to tri-fuel. A smaller generator would have been more economical but about 5000 watts are needed to operate my well. I have no plans to power up the AC/heat pump, just keep the freezer and refrigerator cold and a few lights and run the well enough to charge up the pressure tank for toilet flushing water for a couple of days. I have 5-6 20 lb propane cylinders so I don't have to store gasoline and it go bad, but we usually have 20 gallons of gas on hand for the lawnmower plus 30 gallons of gas in the boat, so I could operate it for a while If necessary.
    Note, the storm that cut through the south on Jan 1 hit our town and tore it up pretty good, I think there were 8 tornados in the surrounding area, power has been off for thousands since then. Some of my wife's relatives just got their power on yesterday and some neighborhoods will still be without power for another week or so. It would be difficult to operate a generator for that long.
    I went to a funeral today, there were a lot of headstones in the cemetery that were blown over, some were just spun around!
    capncarl

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    • LCHIEN
      Internet Fact Checker
      • Dec 2002
      • 20983
      • Katy, TX, USA.
      • BT3000 vintage 1999

      #3
      118 Amps DC inverter input for 1100W is about right. Actually given a typical inverter efficiency of 80-85% you'll need 15% more current.
      You will need some heavy wire to manage drops even at 100W (~10A) if you don't want your inverter to cut out prematurely (and it also cuts into your inverter efficiency) A one volt wire drop will cost you 8.5% power.
      And of course, the length all enters into it.

      10 Ga wire two feet away, two ways will give a 1 volt drop at 118 A and lose 8% of power.

      Schlepping around a 100 Ah deep discharge battery is going to be very heavy!
      Last edited by LCHIEN; 01-14-2017, 03:15 PM.
      Loring in Katy, TX USA
      If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
      BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

      Comment

      • capncarl
        Veteran Member
        • Jan 2007
        • 3570
        • Leesburg Georgia USA
        • SawStop CTS

        #4
        Jim, I agree with your line of thought for using the battery/inverter. My main justification for my generator was the preservation of the food in our freezer. We've nearly lost the contents of our freezers several times due to power outages and lost 1 freezer and food in a flood. To us the value of the food and labor to put up the vegetables is worth the cost of the generator. Being able to stay in your home during a power outage is nice, and being able to flush the toilet is a necessity.

        I have an old Honda 1000 watt generator but it won't run a refrigerator or freezer, but it will definitely charge a battery. You might consider one of the small HF generators for battery charging to extend your operating times.

        Comment


        • LCHIEN
          LCHIEN commented
          Editing a comment
          1000 watts should be able to run a fridge. I recently measured mine (a big Samsung side by side) and it took an average of 100 W with peaks of 800W. I figure its costing me 25 cents per day to operate.
      • JimD
        Veteran Member
        • Feb 2003
        • 4187
        • Lexington, SC.

        #5
        The trolling motor battery is indeed heavy. I recharged it today and will take it back to the boat tomorrow. I've just carried it so far but I might get the two wheeled cart out to take it to the boat. It also goes into a compartment I had to unload to get it out. So it is not a super easy thing to use it. But it isn't that bad either.

        capncarl, you know your house better than me but your energy usage seems high. A 1 hp well pump would use less than 2000 Watts. To use 5,000 you would have to have something like a 3 hp well pump. I didn't think they came that big but I am no expert. The info I've reviewed also puts the usage of refrigerators and freezers in the 100 to 200W range. Old ones use more, however. Ours was new in 2013.

        I agree my solution works much better for an outage less than a day than it does for longer. Once we get city water, gas heated water, and the direct vent kit in the fireplace the basics would be covered anyway but I will be in trouble if there is no internet or TV. One thing we could do is move the inverter to the trunk of one of the BMWs in the garage (battery is in the trunk). We'd have to run the car to power it but we could do this at least occasionally to keep the refrigerator cold. We probably would not do it for the TV and internet. We'd probably just go get the starter battery from the boat and go to minimal electricity usage, possibly only internet. A generator to charge batteries is a thought. One of the reasons I haven't gone that way is the difficulty of getting the power into the house. If it is just charging batteries, that problem is solved. Looks like a battery charger only uses something like 200W but it uses it for hours so that is a consideration. But the ability to rotate batteries could make my scenario much better for a long outage. A little 1000W generator might be something to add to my plans.

        Comment

        • capncarl
          Veteran Member
          • Jan 2007
          • 3570
          • Leesburg Georgia USA
          • SawStop CTS

          #6
          Jim, I've scoured the internet to its end researching generators operating 1 1/2 hp submerged wells. The number guys say 3000 watts but the survivalists site say it actually takes a 5500 watt generator to operate the well. The freezer operates on 550 watts but requires 1350 watts to start up, that's the reason my Honda 1000 won't run it!
          You definately need a hand cart for the trolling battery. You'll mess up your back or blow a valve messing with that heavy thing.

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